What do you say to a JW?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Lorelei, Nov 29, 2002.

  1. Lorelei

    Lorelei
    Expand Collapse
    <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

    Joined:
    May 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,045
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just had a couple of Jehova's Witnesses come to my door and I sent them away. In the past I used to invite them in and try to share with them the truth of the gospel. We spent two hours in discussion one time and sometimes I just haven't the time or energy (fighting a cold today), especially since it only seems to peek thier interest in me as a convert rather than converting them to the Truth. In trying to tell them that I am not interested I want them to know why, but it never seems to come out right.

    So I ask you, when the Jehova's Witnesses come to your door, what do you say?

    ~Lorelei
     
  2. GrannyGumbo

    GrannyGumbo
    Expand Collapse
    <img src ="/Granny.gif">

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    I keep a little packet of good sound tracts beside my door & when they or the Onenesses appear, I grab it up & as they try to hand me their literature, I kindly with a smile tell them "no thanks, but here, please accept mine" & quickly get it in their hands & gently close the door!

    I haven't had any more come around for a quite awhile now. ;)
     
  3. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    "I'm a devout [your affiliation here] Christian and you're not going to be able to convince me to believe in anything else, but thanks for stopping by."
     
  4. Acts 1:8

    Acts 1:8
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ask them for a copy of their New World Translation Bible (I almost choked on my thanksgiving leftovers typing that) and then show them how their own mistranslated book contradicts itself:

    The NWT translates Jn 1:1 as "... and the Word was WITH God, and the word was a god." How can the Word (Jesus) be "a god' if God says in Deut 32:39, "See now that I -- I am he, and there are NO gods together with me..."?

    I shared this with a JW once and it reduced her argument to a weak "Well when you read something you can't just read the black and white, you gotta feel what its saying..."

    I guess what she was saying was to just let my imagination dream up and believe whatever I want...so long as it agrees with her
     
  5. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me give you an excellent witnessing tool to show JWs their error. I must warn you in advance though, this will not work unless you use a King James Bible.

    1. Point him/her to Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:.....

    2. Ask them " who is the first and the last, who is speaking"?

    3. Every JW will say Jehovah based on such verse in the Old Testament such as Isaiah 44:6 and 48:12 which say "I am the first and the last"' "I am He".

    4. Then point then to Rev 1:18 which says:
    I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

    5. Ask them, "When was Jehovah dead"?

    6. They then realize that Jesus Christ was "God manifest in the flesh". (I Tim 3:16)

    The only drawback that you may find is that you may get caught up in a "Greek lesson" from the JW because the NIV and their New World Translation in different. To avoid this have them quote the greek alphabet or recite all the verses in greek for you. They usually cannot.
     
  6. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    I never let them. They are false teachers and goes contrary to 2John 9-11: don't invite them into your house, neither even bid them God-speed, that is say "Good-bye," which means God be with you." I will witness to them on my door-step, however without inviting them inside.
    I don't refer to them as Jehovah's Witnesses for they are not. They Russellites, followers of Russell, an immoral man, who was once tried in Canada, and almost deported for perjury. He took the stand and claimed that he could read Greek. When presented with a Greek New Testament, he couldn't read a word of it. That is perjury. He is a false prophet, having made many prophecies that have failed to come true. He prophesied that Christ would come back, but he never did.

    They deny the deity of Christ. There are many verses that you can use to prove the deity of Christ. Isaiah 9:6 is a good one. But I prefer to use John 1:1 and John 1:14. In their translation (New World Translation) in John 1:1, they have inserted the word "a" before the word "god" at the end of the verse, essentially creating two gods. "In the beginnng was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was (a) God." Does this mean they believe in two gods, a plurality of gods, like the Hindus do? A greater God, and a lesser God? Who is God? John 1:14 plainly tells who he is. He is the Word come in the flesh, and we beheld his glory. Jesus Christ is God, and there is no getting away from that. The Jesus Christ that they worship is a false Christ.

    Have you (J.W's) been born again? I have had them answer with a direct no. Then they cannot enter into the kingdom of God. You must be born again. Concentrate on that.
    Those are just some ideas.
    DHK
     
  7. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    I never invite them in. Nut I do tell them I'm a christian and a baptist, and Jesus is living today just as He did 2000 years ago, He is my Lord and Savior, and as the bible says, noone is going to heaven without Him. Then I close the door.
     
  8. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ps104_33 said:

    I must warn you in advance though, this will not work unless you use a King James Bible.

    Then perhaps you should have chosen your proof-texts more wisely, as I somehow managed to concoct the very same argument from first principles myself, with an NIV, before I ever heard of KJV-onlyism.

    (Any excuse to flog your hobby-horse to death, eh?)
     
  9. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Psalm 104 does have a point. I am not a KJV-Only. And though you may demonstrate the same things through a NIV Bible. It is virtually impossible for them to deny the deity of Christ using a KJV Bible. The modern translations are much weaker in this area. That is why the J.W.'s chose the Critical Text for their translation.
    DHK
     
  10. BrianT

    BrianT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ditto what Ransom said. I've had real-life experience in this area, where my JW friend would not listen to me while I used my NIV, because it "explicitly affirms Christ's deity" (Rom 9:5, 2 Pet 1:1, Titus 2:13, John 1:18), but he would accept the KJV because the wording in these verses allowed his interpretation.

    The key is not necessarily the version, but the arguments you can make. Here are some great ones you can make *right from their own NWT*:

    OT passage about Jehovah:
    Isa 40:3 "Listen! someone is calling out in the wilderness: "Clear up the way of Jehovah, you people! Make the highway for our God through the desert plain straight"

    NT application to Christ:
    Mark 1:1-3 "The beginning of the good nes about Jesus Christ: [2] Just as it is written in Isaiah the prophet: "(Look! I am sending forth my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way; ) [3] listen! someone is crying out in the wilderness, 'Prepare the way of Jehovah, you people, make his roads straight'"

    Here's one of my favorites:
    OT passage about Jehovah:
    Isa 6:1-5 "In the year that King Uzziah died I, however, got to see Jehovah...for my eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of armies, himself!"

    NT application to Christ:
    John 12:41-42 "Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him. [42] All the same, many even of the rulers actually put faith in him, but because of the Pharisees they would not confess him, in order not to be expelled from the synagogue;"

    OK, I'm going to cut back on the typing now:

    - Psalm 119 says Jehovah gives and preserves life, John 5:21 says the Son does.
    - Isa 44:24 says Jehovah is the maker of all things, by himself, all alone*, while John 1:3 and Col 1:16-17 says Christ created everything (they even admit "other" in that passage was added, by use of square brackets).
    - Isa 43:11 says Jehovah alone is the savior, while Luke 2:11 says that the savior was born in Bethlehem and John 4:42 says Christ is "the savior of the world".
    - Deut 32:39, Isa 43:10, Isa 44:6, Isa 44:8, Isa 45:5 says there is no God besides Jehovah. John 1:1, if they won't give up that Christ was "a" god, contradicts these passages.
    - John 17:3 says there is only one true God. Go back to John 1:1 (even in the NWT), and ask if Jesus is a true god or a false god.
    - Isa 48:12 says Jehovah is the first and the last. In Rev 22:12-13, Jesus says he is the first and the last (Jesus is speaking, see v16 which is part of the same quote, even in the NWT).
     
  11. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    Show me a post where I flogged the kjv issue to death. You are bearing false witness
     
  12. Lorelei

    Lorelei
    Expand Collapse
    <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

    Joined:
    May 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,045
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not much of a tract person, I prefer a more personal touch, and I already have a New World Translation. I pretty much did the oneliner thing "I am a Christian, I have studied my Bible and the Watchtower Society and that is why I am not interested in your materials. If I did not have this cold I might have tried to explain more, but I was also reluctant because of prior experiences.

    In one senerio, I almost felt stalked. We spent 2 hours conversing the Bible with no real promise of them coming around to the truth. About 6 months later he came back and said he noticed my car wasn't at my church anymore and wondered if I had a change of heart?!?! I said, No, I had a change of car. (Sold the one I had) Granted it was an easy to spot vehicle (Opal GT) but still, it gave me the creeps.

    He still wanted to talk some more and that is when I invoked the verse about not inviting false prophets into my home (having stated how the WS had prophesied many things that did not come to pass). He left me alone after that, but it was still creepy.

    I want to share the truth and do what is right, but I also know that they are trained not to listen.

    I am enjoying your responses, though I hope they don't get off topic already.

    Thanks all

    ~Lorelei
     
  13. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    I generally try to be friendly, I take their books and patiently listen to what they have to say. This way respect is often shown back. Then I talk to them about a point that I want to talk about. The Alpha and the Omega verses in Revelation are an excellent start.

    I often bring up the 144 000 who they all claim were pure, considering some of the original 144 000 J,W's were known to todays church, I ask if they were in fact Virgins as the bible states. Yet another error.

    Often in a nice way I enquire as to what doctrinal changes have been made recently by the organisation. They have changed doctrines several times, particuarly concerning Solomon. In some cases those that have held the view that they have changed to have been excommunicated.

    As a modern point you might like to ask what there system is for reporting sexual Abuse in the church to the police. The bible clearly states that we are subject to the laws of our countries yet senior members have not as they should have reported abuse to the authorities.

    Somtimes a more direct approach of stating to them that they are in a cult and need help can be effective. Ask them how many of their friends would still be if they left the church then ask them to consider how christian this is. Offer loaned books so they come back to return them.

    Remember, these people took years to become the way they are. Its a hard road back, but not impossible. Lots of small hints add up.
     
  14. TheOliveBranch

    TheOliveBranch
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was from the JW group and know that they are based and grounded on false doctrines. When you accept any of their publications, they give you a mark on their records to return to your home. If you are pleasant that also earns a return visit. If you give them the Gospel in any way that causes offense, they may not return for a year. To get rid of them, just tell them. You may not see them for a longer period of time.

    JW's believe in what they are doing. They have a purpose and they are brainwashed in all their beliefs. Only the moving of the Holy Spirit will ever have them see the truth. They believe they are saved. They know Jesus died for their sins, was buried, and rose again. We as Christians, have alot of false info on their beliefs.

    Satan has a strong hold on them. If you begin to get somewhere with them, then you will see his power begin to work. Lorelei, you were right to turn them away if you didn't feel up to it. The one thing we do have to remember is that they are NOT saved. They do not bring us a false Gospel so that we should not talk to them or give them the truth. All things that we can do to give them the truth is right. We do not know which one will listen, or cause them to question what they have been taught.

    We do have to guard ouselves, though, when they present their teachings. This is a very dangerous and convincing group. Pray always, and give them the true Gospel of Christ.
     
  15. Sherrie

    Sherrie
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2002
    Messages:
    10,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    I begin inviting all of them to my church. I get my Bible and we do begin discussing. I do it with respect to how they are brainwashed and use that as my witness to them. I ask them and their whole church to please attend my church, give tracks on Jesus, and then tracks on our church, and what is nice is a copy of our churches statement of faith. When they leave the tables have been turned. I haven't really seen them in a long time. Wonder what happened?

    Sherrie
     
  16. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    Another interesting point about the 144 000 in the Jehovahs witness idea is that these people all used the KJV not their new translation. So if you use the KJV they cannot tell you it is wrong, otherwise it suggests that there 144 000 were in error.
     
  17. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    When I lived in NW Indiana I stopped by the house of the JW leader in our county. He said he was happy that I stopped and that we could discuss the Bible together. When we discussed the Diety of Christ and what Isaiah had to say, he became so bumfuddled he shouted, "Well Isaiah lied!" I could not believe he said this. I thought I wished I had taped our conversation. Just a little bit of info. Hope it helps you all.
     
  18. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    I disagree. Their gospel is a false gospel, very much a false gospel. And they come to our doors, as false teachers, teaching a false religion of works, teaching that Christ is an angel and not deity. Concerning false teachers and the doctrine of Christ, the Bible says:

    2John:9-11
    9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
    10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
    11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

    They do not bring the doctrine of Christ. Do not allow them into your house. Don't even say good-bye (God-be-with-you), for you also then will share in their evil deeds. Those are God's words, not mine. I didn't write the Bible.
    DHK
     
  19. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    said DHK:

    It is virtually impossible for them to deny the deity of Christ using a KJV Bible. The modern translations are much weaker in this area.

    On the contrary, in the eight or nine New Testament places that explicitly equate Jesus Christ with God, I have found on the whole the modern versions are clearer and more explicit, particularly the much-hated NIV.

    That is why the J.W.'s chose the Critical Text for their translation.

    The question is not exclusively textual, but translational as well.
     
  20. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Show me a post where I flogged the kjv issue to death.

    Whining that you can't prove the deity of Christ without a KJV in this very thread. You can; in fact, you can use the very same argument, and I have.

    You are bearing false witness

    So you deny ever advocating KJV-onlyism in the Bible versions forum?
     

Share This Page

Loading...