What Do You Think Would Happen If...?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gb93433, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    What do you think would happen if all of the churches in America were without paid pastors?

    I brought that question to an older man a few weeks ago. He smiled and said that probably a lot more people would work harder. I know of a church that runs about 300 and has never had a paid pastor. Several of the men and women have graduated from Bible schools and have served in short and long term missions. The older men and women are regularly training the younger for service and discipling them.

    I am curious what your response would be. It seems that some denominations believe that a number of the future pastors in churches will be bivocational. The inference being that we will see a decrease in the number of full time pastors across America.
     
  2. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,653
    Likes Received:
    158
    Very few pastors are paid in Eastern Europe. Being paid is just not a tradition there. So all are bi-vocational and many are extremely conservative ... not in the American sense of conservatism or fundamentalism. There are cultural differences, different problems, different backgrounds. Many are not well educated and this is a result of the years under Communism when a Christian was often not allowed to go to a university and was not allowed to have a good job.

    I expect the answers to your question, within an American context, will be quite different from my small observation.

    The church I attend when I am here, the Sarka Valley Community Church has no paid staff. All tithes and offereings above the cost of utilities and incidential costs are given go missions. Do you know what percentage of the tithes and offereings of the church you mentioned is sent to missions? Just curious.
     
  3. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    0
    Some churches may not be able to fully salary a pastor, however it is there biblical responsibility to give him something.

    So it is not a matter of tradition or culture. It is a matter of biblical obedience. churches do not pay their pastors well. But at least they do pay them something. It is difficult for them at times to understand their responsibility as a church to financially support their pastor because the state pays the Catholic priests and many think that this should be normal for evangelical pastors as well... that is until the learn the biblical mandate to support their pastor.
     
  4. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    My wife is from Ky. and the church she went to and some others around there have never had paid pastors, they are bi vocational pastors. I have been to the church and other churches of the same mind set and have been blessed and had some great teaching. Pastors come from all walks of life and feel as called to preach as any other pastor, from sales, truck driver, college professor and one had an MD.

    I believe H. A. Ironside was a Brethren and never was paid until he was pastor of the Moody Church.

    What I've seen in her old home church and a few of the others I've been to is less committees and more folks working. The building and grounds are kept up by members (which the pastor is a member so he at it also) not paid help. Getting the Gospel out is by all not a few. These churches are much closer than most churches I've been.. If a member needs help a member is there, if it is fixing the car, getting someone to the doctor, help in Bible study or help paying the rent and so on. But with all that said, keep in mind most of these churches are a 100 folks at a service or less, these are country churches.

    Big difference less talk and more work getting done as the old country boy said.

    And yes, most of there money goes to missions.
     
    #4 Bob Alkire, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2008
  5. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0


    Not just “no pay”, but all church members need to see that they have a role in the church. The pastor is not the authority, Christ is, and it’s His church, His wife. Too many pastors have usurped Christ’s role.
     
  6. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,653
    Likes Received:
    158
    Amen brother, and amen. There is no division of clergy and laity in Christ's kingdom. We are all either clergy or laity. Each Christian is a minister. It is just that our ministeries differ. Some inside the church organization and most out in the world. The job of the paid or unpaid inside the church minister is to help prepare the other ministers of his congregation for their ministeries out in the world

    I learned this great truth from Carlyle Marney and Elton Trueboood.
    .
     
  7. Jerome

    Jerome
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,635
    Likes Received:
    45
    I Cor. 9:14
    Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
     
  8. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0

    And Paul said:



    1 Thessalonians 2:9
    For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.

    2 Thessalonians 3:8
    Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:


    Besides that, there is a huge difference between a preacher of the gospel and a pastor of the church.
     
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,378
    Likes Received:
    790
    Whether the pastor is paid or not has no effect on the faithfulness of the congregation. Quite a silly assertion really.
     
  10. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exactly. Besides the fact that though, a congregation that does not try to economically help their pastor in some way is in violation of 1Tm 5:17-18.

    Fact is that God ordained and instituted that a local church have elder(s)/pastor(s) to be the spiritual authority of the church. Sadly some people do not like authority of any kind.
     
  11. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe, but if God Almighty called you to minister would you require payment for your services? Would you then go to college to learn the tools of the trade? Would God really call you in such an unlearned state? I wish I and others did more on faith.
     
  12. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,131
    Likes Received:
    221
    I personally do not like the term "Laymen" (let alone the PR* term layperson) as we are all the servants of Christ. There is a place for the "clergy" as needed

    As far as having a paid "clergy" I believe it is important.

    Suppose one of my members needs me at the hospital or some other emergency. Don't think my taxi customers would appreciate it if I was to tell them to get out and call another one.

    Another words, having a full time pastor, makes him available when he is needed. (thats right, we are on call 24 hours a day) Our church has just voted to very slightly increase my salary. As they can do more, I will spend less time driving taxi and more time serving the church.
    I agree that all church members need to be involved, but...

    Salty

    *PR politically ridiculous
     
    #12 Salty, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2008
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,378
    Likes Received:
    790
    I have pastored churches with both some salary and no salary at all. If I must earn income elsewhere it limits my time available to labor in the word and to the church.I will go where God sends me under what ever circumstances he chooses. The house church movement usually pushes this anit-pastor agenda which is born out of rebellion.
     
  14. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0

    You are right, it is rebellion against man taking Christ's role. No saved man needs another mans help. Every believer is autonomous.
     
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,378
    Likes Received:
    790

    2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
    2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
    2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
    2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


    Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

    Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
     
  16. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0


    This was written to ALL men


    This is talking about parents
     
  17. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    0
    No its not talking about parents. Clearly you have a problem with God-given authority in your life.
     
  18. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    0
    A pastor/elder should not demand to paid by a church. But a church ought to follow the biblical mandate to financially help their pastor.

    As has been said, not paying the pastor does not afford him the time needed to study and prepare to feed the sheep and minister in other areas as well.
     
  19. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0


    They certainly can be talking about parents. Also, they refer to following the faith of Christ. If babes in Christ want to follow a man they better make sure that man is following the faith of Christ.


    1 John 2:27
    But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


    Clerly you have an issue leading yourself.
     
  20. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,131
    Likes Received:
    221
    I have never required a church to pay me. In fact, this is only the only church, out of some 7 churches I have pastored. I was Bi-vo in every on of these churches

    But keep in mind, you get what you pay for.:laugh:
     

Share This Page

Loading...