What Does "All" Mean?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by ktn4eg, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. ktn4eg

    ktn4eg
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    In most of the posts here on BB that have anything to do with the Cal vs. "Free Will" positions, invariably you'll find references to verses/passages that use the word "all" in them.

    I'd like to know what exactly the word "all" means in these references.

    Does "all" mean "all without any exception"?

    Does it mean "all without any distinction"?

    Can "all" mean different things in different verses?
     
  2. Herald

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    .......Yes.
     
  3. HisWitness

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    I will agree also that the answer is yes:thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  4. HisWitness

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    in a statement such as romans 5--when the word many is used in both cases.

    the word MANY in the first portion of the statement is understood to mean all mankind was concluded under sin and ALL were made sinners through adam.

    well then when the scriptures says IN LIKE MANNER(the first MANY is the same as the 2nd MANY)meaning that both MANY is ALL of mankind.

    depends on what the first ALL means--then when it says in like manner--that is telling us that what the first ALL means in a statement that the 2nd ALL is the same meaning(in like manner) so in this case both ALL is ALL mankind.

    so if ALL were made sinners-------then
    ALL shall be made righteous-------

    when in the scripture it said that ALL of Judea came out to see Jesus---this is different--did ALL in Judea come out ?what about the ones that couldn't walk--couldn't see--couldn't stand up--truly some in that city could not make it out and it wasn't enough people that was willing to go to the trouble of getting all the sickly folks out to meet him--so in this case ALL did not mean ALL(as in every person in the city)it would fall under the meaning of SOME OF EVERY KIND of the city came out to meet him.
     
  5. psalms109:31

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    Acts 4:12
    Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

    When men say all or the world they are talking about all they are seeing and all they know.

    They are not God, so trying to show them as a meaning that all men all is limited by mans perspective.

    So to Paul he reaches all he knew of. We have our ends of the earth to reach

    When the scriptures says Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

    He is not talking about believers who are in the world and not of it.

    When God said all men He is talking about everyone single person all He knows of.

    When He said that He loved world that He sent His Son, He loved the world everyone heathens, sinners like me that He sent His Son, not that the whole world will be saved, the next line is your answer to who will be saved whosoever believes in Jesus.

    It is a shame how men try to destroy the message of the Holy Spirit, by trying to say He meant something else. If the Holy Spirit meant something else He would of said what He meant. I like Spurgeon said about all men.

    "What then? Shall we try to put another meaning into the text than that which it fairly bears? I trow not. You must, most of you, be acquainted with the general method in which our older Calvinistic friends deal with this text. "All men," say they,—"that is, some men": as if the Holy Ghost could not have said "some men" if he had meant some men. "All men," say they; "that is, some of all sorts of men": as if the Lord could not have said "all sorts of men" if he had meant that. The Holy Ghost by the apostle has written "all men," and unquestionably he means all men. I know how to get rid of the force of the "alls" according to that critical method which some time ago was very current, but I do not see how it can be applied here with due regard to truth. I was reading just now the exposition of a very able doctor who explains the text so as to explain it away; he applies grammatical gunpowder to it, and explodes it by way of expounding it. I thought when I read his exposition that it would have been a very capital comment upon the text if it had read, "Who will not have all men to be saved, nor come to a knowledge of the truth." Had such been the inspired language every remark of the learned doctor would have been exactly in keeping, but as it happens to say, "Who will have all men to be saved," his observations are more than a little out of place. My love of consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater. I would sooner a hundred times over appear to be inconsistent with myself than be inconsistent with the word of God. I never thought it to be any very great crime to seem to be inconsistent with myself; for who am I that I should everlastingly be consistent? But I do think it a great crime to be so inconsistent with the word of God that I should want to lop away a bough or even a twig from so much as a single tree of the forest of Scripture. God forbid that I should cut or shape, even in the least degree, any divine expression. So runs the text, and so we must read it, "God our Savior; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
    Does not the text mean that it is the wish of God that men should be saved? The word "wish" gives as much force to the original as it really requires, and the passage should run thus—"whose wish it is that all men should be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth." As it is my wish that it should be so, as it is your wish that it might be so, so it is God's wish that all men should be saved; for, assuredly, he is not less benevolent than we are. Then comes the question, "But if he wishes it to be so, why does he not make it so? " Beloved friend, have you never heard that a fool may ask a question which a wise man cannot answer, and, if that be so, I am sure a wise person, like yourself, can ask me a great many questions which, fool as I am, I am yet not foolish enough to try to answer. Your question is only one form of the great debate of all the ages,—"If God be infinitely good and powerful, why does not his power carry out to the full all his beneficence?" It is God's wish that the oppressed should go free, yet there are many oppressed who are not free. It is God's wish that the sick should not suffer. Do you doubt it? Is it not your own wish? And yet the Lord does not work a miracle to heal every sick person. It is God's wish that his creatures should be happy. Do you deny that? He does not interpose by any miraculous agency to make us all happy, and yet it would be wicked to suppose that he does not wish the happiness of all the creatures that he has made. He has an infinite benevolence which, nevertheless, is not in all points worked out by his infinite omnipotence; and if anybody asked me why it is not, I cannot tell. I have never set up to be an explainer of all difficulties, and I have no desire to do so."

    Spurgeon
     
    #5 psalms109:31, Jun 2, 2013
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  6. HisWitness

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    do you think that if God wished ALL men to be saved that God doesn't have the Power to make it happen ? you will say yea but man rejects God and theres nothing God can do about it ? you will say yea God has the Power but will save only some,even though he desires ALL men to be saved ?what does these thoughts lead unto friend--it either leads to a limited God who cant save his creation or it leads to a tyrant God who saves some but will leave the rest(even though he had the power to save them)as some say to burn in hell for an eternity ?mmm these things just don't sound like the Loving God the scriptures speaks about--why not just say like God did--he desires ALL to be saved(what God desires he brings to pass)or ALL shall be made righteous(God shall make them so)im not neglecting the FIRE man must go unto in saying all these things,im not saying there isn't Judgement upon ALL men before this happens--that's what the scriptures says also--but why do we in our time want to say well if this is like this then this cant happen because of that happening--utter foolishness on our parts--its all true friend and it shall be accomplished by the Grace and Power of the ALL MIGHTY GOD


    Also the purpose of the Judgement and the FIRE is for correction and not self gratification of tormenting people.
     
    #6 HisWitness, Jun 2, 2013
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  7. psalms109:31

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    I am not a universalist I believe Angels and mankind is given a free agency, if they did not then we will all be doing the will of God.Moses having to be coaxed to do the will of God through a burning bush, Jonah by changing things around him to go the direction He wanted him to go. Satan rebellion, Adam's rebellion all teaches we are all created with this free agency. It is against the will of God to not to create His creation that way, or they wouldn't be that way.

    It is also the will of God that believers in His Son be saved, with our free agency and that , that is the way we must be saved.

    Saved from what? Condemnation, eternal age not a temporary age. We have this time on earth to repent and live then face judgement. I desire people not to believe a lie but to believe in Jesus for i desire no one to face any condemnation in Christ they will not.

    Just as Jesus was given a life to Himself we are to when we was created.

    We rebelled by our free agency following the will of our flesh not the will of God.
     
    #7 psalms109:31, Jun 2, 2013
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  8. DrJamesAch

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    All means all, and that's all "all" means.

    The confusion among Calvies is when 'all' is used as an adverb, determiner, or quantifier. There are some passages where all refers to all that are available, but all still means all.

    When the Bible says love God with ALL your heart, it doesn't mean SOME of it.

    When the Bibles says to put away ALL filthiness in James 1, it means ALL filthiness, not some of it.

    What Calvinists like to do is take verses where the CONTEXT LIMITS THE QUANTITY, and apply it to the verses where there is no quantitative limitations.
    Or, they will attempt to insert the word 'ALL' and make you think that the word belongs there so that they can reinterpret the verse. For example. How many times have you heard a Calvinist argue that John 3:16 does not mean ALL the world! Now go read the verse and show me where the word "all" is even at. I'll count to 10 while you look. Time's up: ITS NOT THERE.

    What IS in John 3:16 is a definite article (ton, singular accusative) that is compared to 'whosoever'. So the grammatical structure proves that the verse is including an unlimited quantity that is restricted to whosoever believes even though the sacrifice is offered to an unlimited audience . Both sides argue the word "ALL" is implied, but it is only the Calvinist that asserts the world ALL here and then tries to define it in terms that it is used differently in other verses. The Calvinist finds usages where "all" has a certain quantity which is determined by the context, and applies it out of context to verses where the quantity is unlimited. It's a "sleight of hand" card trick.
     
    #8 DrJamesAch, Jun 2, 2013
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  9. saturneptune

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    Is that a fact?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. HisWitness

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    all that are available would also mean some of every kind--all was not available to come but some of every kind did come--so therefore all came who were able and available to do so.
     
  11. HisWitness

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    :applause::applause:
     
  12. saturneptune

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    Speaking of slight of hand, you fail to mention that whosoever will has already been elected.
     
  13. DrJamesAch

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    I believe the second one is an aWl. Now if that's ALL, I have some laundry to do :)
     
  14. DrJamesAch

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    That's not ALL I "failed to mention". The price of gas is much cheaper here than it is in the US.:smilewinkgrin:
     
  15. saturneptune

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    Really, All is good for getting out the dirt and stains. Don't forget to drop your Doctorate of Theology in the wash.
     
  16. DrJamesAch

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    Is that ALL you got?
     
  17. HisWitness

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    let me ask you a question--who gave us the ability to do evil ? God
    Now he could have made us with only the ability to do Good? Yes
    its truly our faults because man chose to do evil--but don't you think God could make a way that ALL man could be made righteous--if you say he made man with the ability to do evil(knowing man was gonna do the evil all along that his purpose and Glory could be revealed)could he not also make a way for man to escape and be made righteous also--if you yes but he didn't do so( sounds kinda weird if you ask me)or if you say no(then you are saying God's power is only limited in its ability)you are being blinded by your own confusion and tradition.:tear::tear::tear:
     
  18. Herald

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    ktn4g,

    I am sorry about the "yes" answer earlier. I could not help myself. You left yourself wide open for that :)

    "All" is obviously defined by the context in which it's used. For instance in Romans 11:26 we read, "...and so all Israel will be saved;". Does Paul mean that each and every person in Israel's history is going to be saved? Does he even mean that each and every person in Israel then living is going to be saved? Was he including the future nation of Israel that was established in 1948? If words mean things, and they do, then "all" needs to be defined by the context in which it is used. In regards to Romans 11:26, "all" is a representative number of the covenant nation of Israel.

    But then we go a passage such as Paul's sermon on Mars Hill when he said, "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent," (Acts 17:30). What is interesting about this passage is the word "people" was added by the translators in order to better render the passage. Literally it reads, "God is now declaring that all everywhere should repent". Typically an adverb, "all" is also the subject in this case. This has the result of amplifying its emphasis; and by saying "all people everywhere", Paul indeed means each and every person, not a representative sample.
     
    #18 Herald, Jun 2, 2013
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  19. saturneptune

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    Nope, I have a real degree.
     
  20. psalms109:31

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    Ezekiel 28:15
    You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.

    Our sin and wickedness was not created in us it was found when we desired what was created over the Creator. It came from our own free agency. Found not that God didn't know that it was going to happen meaning God did not put it there. We are a free agency responsible for our own actions.
     
    #20 psalms109:31, Jun 2, 2013
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