What does believe mean?

That is an excellent question. I think it has to be rightly divided according to context.

(Like the word "salvation" - see Acts 27:31)

The English word "eternal" means "Age lasting". It is only "eternal" in an absolute sense when the context dictates it. A quick word study on the words "eternal", "Forever", and "everlasting" will reveal when these words are used in a relative sense.

"This traffic light is taking forever." "That thunderstom lasted for an eternity." These are propper uses of the English words. (It is the same in Greek BTW if that makes any difference to anyone.)

I believe it is talking about the Kingdom Age. And I believe that eternal means "Age-lasting", or for the duration. This will get into a whole other topic, but I believe that entrance into the kingdom age is dependent upon our practical righteousness and holy walk AFTER salvation. I believe we can miss it (The whole 1000 year Millennial reign) and be excluded. But this is a matter of reward not initial salvation (justification).

Look at John 3.3, 5 Born again = Saved for absolute eternity (see the kingdom).
Born of the Spirit and water (our works) = entrance into the Kingdom.

Moses is a great picture. He was under the blood from the passover forward. But his disobedience caused him to only get to "see" the kingdom, not enter it.


I believe the whole message of 1 John is "Christian be good, get a reward, be bad, get a whipping!" There is very little about getting saved and I'm not sure if a single verse is addressed to the unbeliever. That is what makes me think that the context is the Kingdom age and not the Final Eternal age.

Lacy

 

I disagree strongly, based on the context of the passage. But, since the words don't have the same meaning to you as they do to me, there can never be any reconciliation of the positions. So....

peace to youraying:

 

What does "Saved" mean (To you) in Acts 27:31?

lacy

 

Based on context, it means saved from the peril of death by drowning.

peace to youraying:

 

How about everlasting here?

Ge 49:26 -
The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

Hab 3:6 -
He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

 

In all three cases the Hebrew word is "olam" which has a variety of meanings according to context. It's basic meaning is "to the vanishing point", or "to a indeterminant time in the future or past".

In Gen 49:26, Jacob is pronouncing his blessings on his children, specifically on Joseph in these verses. It means that his blessings shall be "without measure" just as the hills appear to exist without end, so shall his blessings.

In Hab 3:6, the context is God's ways (which are truly everlasting/eternal) in contrast with mountains and hills which only appear to be "everlasting" but in fact shall be scattered and bowed low respectively.

peace to youraying:

 

canadyjd,

So to say that words don't mean the same "to me" is a mis-statement. Apparantly we agree that context helps define words, especially when they can be shown to have shades of meaning. We might disagree on the contextual implications.

Eternal can mean for 1000 years if that is the entire duration of the age. I don't believe that it carries that meaning every time, or even most of the time, but here, because of who the warnings are addressed to, I do.

3:1 shows why and to whom the book is written.

If you can show me a verse in 1 John that addresses a nonbeliever and tells him that he must believe (to be saved) then have works to prove he believed, I might change my mind.



Lacy

 

Y'all,

I believe this thread has gotten off track. Let's think about believe again. What does it mean?

I was listening to a preacher today with this idea -- There's nothing in us that we can believe God. We can tell people they are sinners all we want but they can't receive that. But when they hear the gospel, they can hear and say "Have mercy on me, Lord!" Why? Cause they can recognize His love.

C'mon people! Get real!! Let's think that over again. First, a person can hear that God "convicts" them. The preacher was part true -- our mind/spirit may not accept it. But preacher takes no account of our CONSCIENCE! Isn't that what God gave us so we would know right from wrong? fair from unfair? Think about it! We know in our consciences whether we are sinless in God's/the Bible's eyes!

Same with the gospel message. We have this "God vacuum" in our conscience that is looking for filling. Sure preacher was right about this -- but for the wrong reason (he NOT recognizing the conscience but instead attributing ALL to God).

Either of these messages combined with conscience can lead to belief. Belief is merely taking facts and comparing them with what is in our heart and in our mind. Obviously, a person that can't comprehend facts (infants, for instance) has nothing to compare them to and can't believe.

But here's the point of belief -- belief in the gospel calls for response! Scarlet called it "commitment." That's what I did. That's what most believers do -- commit their lives to Christ. Not promising that they will be "Mr., Mrs., or Miss "Goody Two Shoes." That's, again, like saying I can save myself if I just "perform!"

I believe this is the NEXUS of free will and Calvinism!! Hearing and believing are within the capability of the unbeliever. The Holy Spirit in the word speaks powerfully to the consciousness of God in the soul/conscience of man -- that's God working through the word in us "quickening" us to respond to Him on account of belief! God, if we respond, gives us faith, regenerates us by the indwelling Spirit, etc.

The "elect" are saved by believing. There is NO WAY AROUND belief! But it doesn't matter if God believes or if your parents believe -- in salvation, it is up to YOU to believe!

skypair

 

What is the gospel?

 

Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

This statement in Acts 16:31 uses "believe" in the aorist tense. It's punctiliar action, not linear action. "Will be saved" is indicative; it's a simple statement of what will happen, based upon the action of "believe" in the aorist.

What do you need to believe? On the Lord Jesus. That he died in your place that if you accept the free gift that's being offered, you will be saved.

"Believe" in the present tense is a requirement for obedience, and when used as a participle is synonymous with the noun "faith".

"Believe" is not a difficult concept. But, many people want to make it such.

As to "eternal", Lacy, you are correct that context can determine its meaning. However, if you look at the original language, you don't even need to look at context; it's explicit.

Although in modern English, we use terms such as "the light took forever", properly, "eternal" means "without beginning or ending" or "existing outside of time". The Greek word to which this is closest is "aidios", which is used only twice in the Bible.

"Everlasting", which properly means "without ending", is a Greek phrase εις τοὺς αιωνας των αιώνων or literally “from the ages unto the ages”. It is used in several places in the Bible and is usually translated in the KJV as "forever and ever" or something similar. This expression is found in Gal 1.5, Eph 3.21, Phl 4.20, 1Tm 1.17, 2Tm 4.18, Rev 1.6, Rev 1.18, Rev 4.9, Rev 4.10, Rev 10.6, Rev 11.15, Rev 14.11 (no definite article), Rev 15.7, Rev 19.3, Rev 20.10, Rev 22.5. (Please note that Revelation 14:11 does not contain the definite article, so it is simply “ages of ages”, which simply means a long time.)

However, the Greek word "aionios", means literally “age-lasting”. It is often translated variously as eternal, everlasting, or whatever suited the fancy of the translator at the time. It is from the noun "aion". "Aionios", by definition, has to do with a specific period of time; the Kingdom age.

To take a quote from Dualism of Eternal Life by S. S. Craig:

If you would like to download the verse lists and parsed verses for each of these words/expressions, right click and save the following links:

Ages Unto Ages

Age-Lasting

Eternal

Ages

 

"eternal" in John 5:13 is an adjective, modifying "life". John is not discussing a "kingdom age", or a 1000 year reign. He is discussing how they are living their lives and how they can be certain they have "eternal life" which means salvation.

I do understand what you are saying. I have found the whole "dispensational ages" doctrine to be lacking a solid foundation in scripture, and therefore I must reject it for the plain reading of the text.

peace to youraying:

 

So you are rejecting a literal 1000 year kingdom?

 

I have not been keeping up with this thread until today. Some great reading!

I think one of the biggest problems in this area is the same problem in other areas in that people are misrepresenting people's positions.

Let me explain. Several times I have read on this thread that "mental assent," or "mental knowledge" or "knowing" doesn't save a person. And that is followed up by knowing God or believing that Jesus lived and died or that there is only one God, etc.

And those remarks have been pushed onto the folks that are saying all one has to do is to believe to be saved.

But what some are failing to realize, understand or just admit is that no one on this thread and no one that I know of that promotes what is referred to as grace only or easy believism does not teach mental assention or a knowledge that Christ lived and died or that God exists and there's only One God. That's not what it is about.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Lacy, HoG and James will all agree with me when I say that is not what we teach, nor what the Bible teaches.

What the Bible does teach is believe and you WILL BE saved (Acts 16:31), and by grace THROUGH FAITH you HAVE BEEN saved (Ephesians 2:8).

Now what does it mean to believe or have faith? It means that a person understands they are a sinner and that Jesus died as their substitute and shed His blood on their behalf to pay their sin debt. If they believe that then they ARE saved no ifs, ands or buts about it.

If a person believes Jesus lived on earth and died on a cross and that's all they believe they will end up in the same eternal lake of fire that all other non-believers end up in.

Believing means that you accept what was done on your behalf by Jesus' death and shed blood. That's what the Bible says and anything contrary to that is contrary to the plain teaching of Scripture and places contradiction on Scripture that can not exist unless God be a liar and I don't think any of us would acknowledge that God is a liar, because He is not.

Church tradition is reaking havoc on believers and non-believers alike these days and it is absolutely heart wrenching to see, hear and read. If we are going to get to God's Truth then we are going to have to die to self in the study of Scripture as well and let the Spirit teach us.

 

How come you left me out of that group above? :tear: I b'longs there, too! :laugh:

By the way, you and I added to the three above will make five, the number of grace!?!?? :thumbsup: :laugh:

Ed



Ed

 

Stupid of me to get a double post!

Ed

 

Hey I did leave you out of that - My bad!!!! My apology is offered

 

I am rejecting the notion that I John is speaking of a "kingdom age" and not eternal salvation.

peace to youraying:

 

Mark 10:29-30

29And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
30But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.



The world to come is the kingdom. So why couldn't eternal life refer to the kingdom age? Some will not be raised to eternal life until after the thousand years are finished. But those who lose their lives in this world for His sake shall find them in the next.

 

Apology accepted! :thumbsup: :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

James,

Mark 10:30 doesn't say either 'kingdom age' or '1000 years'. Simple it says, Eternal life. Eternal is a endless, and it is forever and ever. Many people understand Mark 10:30 well. No necesscary for do guesswork what Christ saying of Mark 10:30. They easily understood what Christ actual saying.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!