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Featured What Does "Inspired" Mean, Relative to the Bible?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Archie the Preacher, Jan 18, 2014.

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  1. Archie the Preacher

    Archie the Preacher Member

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    So is the NET Bible I read reliable or not? Does the text therein afford me the actual message God intended for me to read-hear-understand?
     
    #101 Archie the Preacher, Feb 4, 2014
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Which view do you agree with?
     
    #102 Yeshua1, Feb 5, 2014
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    hebrews states to us thatits by FAITH we know God created the Universe, and that Jesus was resurrected, so ther are things God does that NO amount of science will fully explain how was done!
     
    #103 Yeshua1, Feb 5, 2014
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    yes, but would also recommend using amore formal translation such as the Nasb/Kjv/Nkjv also!
     
    #104 Yeshua1, Feb 5, 2014
  5. Archie the Preacher

    Archie the Preacher Member

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    What do you mean by 'more formal'? What makes the ones you mention 'more formal' than the NET Bible?
     
    #105 Archie the Preacher, Feb 5, 2014
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    net more of a dynamic translation then those I mentioned!
     
    #106 Yeshua1, Feb 5, 2014
  7. Archie the Preacher

    Archie the Preacher Member

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    Different questions, Yeshua

    Yes, God Created the Universe. The Bible does not expand much on the mechanism or technique of such Creation.

    These are two different questions, but linked in some ways. God certainly explains the 'why' we are here part. I am also curious - and not me alone - about the 'how' we are here question. Simply saying 'God did it' is rather easy, but not very useful.
     
    #107 Archie the Preacher, Feb 5, 2014
  8. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Absolute bunk TC. Name any translation where the translators say they do not hold to the verbal plenary doctrine of inspiration.

    Your favorite Bible translations try "to put into different words the inspired thought,or idea,or concept of the original." Your favorite versions do not gloss over or ignore the words inspired by God --and neither do the versions that are not on your favored list.

    Since translation involves a transfer from one language to another --certainly different words are going to be used. LOL! But there is no standardized list of absolutely sanctified words that are set in stone with alternatives being less than desirable.

    All versions use English glosses --which has nothing to do with glossing over anything.

    It is particularly galling for you to say that versions other than your favs "ignore the words inspired by God."

    Within your post you stated some true things --but the untrue items negated the value of the false.
     
    #108 Rippon, Feb 5, 2014
  9. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    God performs miracles, like the bread and fish in Matthew that to us defy that laws of nature. Raising Lazarus from the dead. Turning the water into wine. These events, including the Events about the sun in Isaiah happened. Someone misinterpreting doesn't make an event not happen.

    We are imperfect people. People always misunderstand Scripture. That's not God's fault. If God only wrote words that wouldn't be misunderstood by anyone, He wouldn't have written anything.

    he just was misinterpreting the Bible. It's that simple.
     
    #109 jbh28, Feb 5, 2014
  10. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    I saw this after posting. guess we were thinking a like.
     
    #110 jbh28, Feb 5, 2014
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I have no problems with either the Dynamic or Conceptual Theory or the Verbal and Formal Inspiration theory. I too prefer a more formal translation methodology but sometimes it is necessary to be more dynamic or conceptual in order to make sense in the receptor language. :)
     
    #111 TCassidy, Feb 5, 2014
  12. Archie the Preacher

    Archie the Preacher Member

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    Sorry Yesh ...

    I wasn't ignoring you, I just missed this post.
    By more 'formal', you mean a closer 'word for word' translation - not how the English language is arranged. Is that correct?
     
    #112 Archie the Preacher, Feb 5, 2014
  13. Archie the Preacher

    Archie the Preacher Member

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    JBH, you still avoided the real question

    No one said it didn't happen. At least I didn't say such a thing - if you had paid attention to the post, you'd have known that already.

    The problem is the original text of Isaiah in Hebrew - prior to any translation - records that the Sun moved backwards. That is exactly what the text says. But you ignore it, pretend it isn't there and instead say people made mistakes. For instance
    But in this case - Isaiah 38 - they did not misunderstand, did they? Why are you so afraid of actually looking at it and seeing what it says?

    Then - at some point after the Galileo grand error - Christianity decided the Earth orbited the Sun. So why did Christianity change from the literal reading of Isaiah 38 to assuming the facts as we know them? Are you afraid to address that? Are you afraid the Lord can't keep up? (He can, relax.)

    However, there are several very serious consequences of actually looking and seeing and attempting to find out why it was done that way. Which is quite scary to any number of modern Christians.
     
    #113 Archie the Preacher, Feb 5, 2014
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No. A formal translation is one that maintains the grammatical form of the Greek word when it is translated into English. A singular in the original remains a singular in the receptor language. A noun remains a noun. A pronoun remains a pronoun. Etc.
     
    #114 TCassidy, Feb 5, 2014
  15. Archie the Preacher

    Archie the Preacher Member

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    Mr Cassidy, nice to see you again.

    I find the 'dynamic' theory quite acceptable - as you may have gathered. It can - if the translator isn't being very careful and prayerful - lead to some 'liberties' in wording. (The Cotton Patch version comes to mind. The CPV was a special purpose, 'niche' Bible and I like it!) However, presuming a translator working honorably with God's leading will not change anything of import. By that I mean of doctrinal or theological meaning.

    The 'formal' theory can be deceptive at times. For instance, the Hebrew phrase "... forty days and forty nights..." has caused some consternation in English which need not arise. (And the bit about Adam 'knew' his wife Eve gave me some pause as a child. I was pretty sure shaking hands didn't cause pregnancy, but I wondered for a while.)

    I even find the 'Living Bible' to be true to the intent and quite useful. (When they were twenty-five cents a copy they were quite useful indeed!) That Bible is of course a 'paraphrase'. Horrors! (I knew a couple gentlemen a number of years ago who would hardly say 'paraphrase' out loud. I found that humorous in some regards.)

    All in all, God Almighty takes care of His Word. He makes it work in spite of human error.
     
    #115 Archie the Preacher, Feb 5, 2014
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Don't mistake language of appearance for a mistake. We still use similar language of appearance today.

    I am sitting here watching The Weather Channel. Our local forecast came up on the screen, and along the bottom it said "Sunrise" and "Sunset" and gave a time for each.

    We all know that the sun does not rise nor set, but that the Earth rotates under it, but we still use the language of appearance. :)
     
    #116 TCassidy, Feb 5, 2014
  17. Archie the Preacher

    Archie the Preacher Member

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    Thanks, but...

    Okay. That's what I understand as being 'word for word'. But I am aware of shades of meaning and 'definitions' in different schools of thought on the same subject. (As in 'translations are not inspired, they are preserved'. Sounds like a government manual writer who feels the need to justify their salary.)

    I directed the question to Yesh and want his answer to make sure I know what he was intending.
     
    #117 Archie the Preacher, Feb 5, 2014
  18. Archie the Preacher

    Archie the Preacher Member

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    You are correct, but I don't.

    Some of us refer to those usages as 'idiomatic expressions'.

    However, Isaiah 38:8 says the "...Sun returned [so far]". That is NOT an idiomatic expression or 'appearance of language'. And in my not so humble opinion, God put it there on purpose.
     
    #118 Archie the Preacher, Feb 5, 2014
  19. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Time To Quote From One Of My Favorite Books

    "How To Choose A Translation For All Its Worth" by Gordon D. Fee and Mark L. Strauss.

    "Formal equivalence also seeks to reproduce the grammar or syntax of the original text as closely as possible (this is called syntactic correspondence). If the Greek or Hebrew text uses an infinitive,the English translation will use an infinitive. When the Greek or Hebrew has a prepositional phrase, so will the English. Again, this goal cannot be achieved perfectly, since some grammatical forms don't exist in English (like certain uses of the Greek genitive case or the Hebrew waw-consecutive), and others function differently from their English counterparts." (p.26)

    "Accuracy in translation relates to equivalent meaning, not equivalent form." (p.27)

    "Even translations that claim to be essentially literal constantly modify Hebrew and Greek forms to express the meaning of the text. Consider the Greek phrase that begins Mark's Gospel ...Most beginning Greek students would consider this to be simple Greek,which can be translated, 'The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ'...Yet even this is not a 'literal' translation. The Greek grammatical forms are NOUN + GENITIVE PHRASE + GENETIVE PHRASE. The grammatical forms of the English translation are DEFINITE ARTICLE + NOUN + PREPOSITIONAL PHRASE + PREPOSITIONAL PHRASE. Almost all of the grammatical forms were changed to produce this supposedly 'literal' translation. Furthermore,the phrase could have been translated,'The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah'(TNIV). What seems at first to be a simple and direct translation is in fact an interpretation using different English forms to express the same meaning. This kind of intrepretation occurs in almost every sentence in the Bible.

    "So while formal equivalent translators try to proceed with a method of formal equivalence (word-for-word replacement), their decisions are in fact determined by a philosophy of functional equivalence (change the form whenever necessary to retain meaning)." (p.28)
     
    #119 Rippon, Feb 6, 2014
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Well, God created it from out of nothing, so why assume that he cannot do things that we will NEVER be able to fully explain?
     
    #120 Yeshua1, Feb 6, 2014
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