What does it mean to be saved ?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by savedbymercy, May 17, 2015.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Its important to understand that the bible teaches to be saved in Three distinct ways, and all three are because of Christ, His Death of the Cross ! #1. All for whom God has Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    2 Tim 1:9

    9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    By this Eternal Purpose in Christ of Election the Chosen are already saved from the Penalty and condemnation of their sins before they even become sinners in real time !

    This means, though unknown to them, there was never no danger of them being condemned to Hell for their sins ! Thats Because God Eternally had already Purposed for Christ to be condemned for them in their stead !

    So was it really any real danger of any of them perishing in their sins, If God had already purposed to save them ? No its not, thats saying that God's Purpose might have been defeated and or disappointed !

    #2. Those whom God has Chosen and Christ has died for, solely based upon His Death, they are legally saved from the penalty and condemnation of their sins, thats why its taught that those Christ died for, even while being enemies/unbelievers, they are nevertheless reconciled to God ! Rom 5:10

    For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    As unbelievers and enemies they were saved from the penalty and condemnation of their sins, based solely on Christ's Death. The word reconciled in Vs 10 is the greek word καταλλάσσω:

    I change, exchange, reconcile.

    to receive one into his favor

    to be restored to the favor of God, to recover God's favor

    This is a Truth the unbelieving religious world cannot receive, but unbelievers and enemies that Christ died for are not under His Wrath and or Condemnation like others Jn 3:18,36 but instead are in God's Favor, and Peace, not because of anything they did, or anything did in them, but because of what Christ did for them !

    Even being Saved from penalty and condemnation of sin by the Purpose of God as in Point #1 its foundationed upon the Legal effects of His Cross, in time, because Gods being is Eternal, He is not bound by time to realize His Purpose as men are who are creatures of time. He being Eternal could reckon the Legal benefits of Christ's death as a done deal from eternity and so, In the Purpose of God He is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8

    8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[In Purpose] from the foundation of the world.

    1 Pet 1:20

    20 Who verily was foreordained[in purpose to be slain] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

    However it was in Time and by the Cross, He actually died and paid the Legal debt for their sins, they being always in God's Purpose charged to Him and not to them !
     
  2. PreachTony

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    So Jesus gave the disciples the Great Commission for no reason, right? I mean, if there was never a danger of the Elect not being saved, then there is no reason to preach the gospel. Paul was wrong in saying that we are saved by grace through faith, and that faith comes by hearing the preached word of God. Jesus was wrong in saying that man must be born again, especially considering that you say man was born saved, and therefore could not be born "again."

    Your theology is disgusting, SBM. The God you worship is most certainly not the God described in the Bible.

    Of course, I'm just evading and rabbit-trailing, right?
     
  3. savedbymercy

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    pt

    Huh ? I have the slightest notion what you are talking about, you are coming way out from left field, a rabbit trail !

    Now, did you read the entire post ? Please be prepared to discuss the points I made, I want to see if you understood them, then we go from there !
     
  4. PreachTony

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    Oh, I think you have more than a slight notion. If people are born saved, and are not in danger of hell...and if people are born damned to Hell, without hope of salvation...then there is no point in preaching the gospel. I would assume Jesus knew this, seeing as He is God. So why would Jesus tell His disciples to go into the world and preach the gospel and baptize? The disciples stood no chance of success or failure under your system. The world was already saved or damned. There's not even a reason for God to be longsuffering toward us if He's already assigned salvation and damnation to all and there is nothing anyone can do to change it.
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    I guess you will continue to evade my points made without discussion of them! Let me know when you change your mind!
     
  6. savedbymercy

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    What does it mean to be saved ?2

    Now for #3. There is a being saved spiritually from the power of sin. Now even those of us who by the Grace of God who were blessed to be legally saved by Purpose and the Death of Christ, legally saved from the Penalty and condemnation of Our sins, yet in actual time we are still spiritually lost in alienation from God, much like the Prodigal Son, he was Lost and dead to His Father Lk 15:24

    For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

    But even then, he was a Son ! By nature all the Chosen are spiritually lost, dead in trespasses and sins,but still Sons, but have no life spiritually and no fellowship with God.

    For this reason the Legally saved still need to be saved from a spiritually lost state, or to be converted, and this Saving is done by the Spirit Titus 3:5

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    And even this Spiritual Saving by the Spirit is in conjunction with and foundationed upon the Legal Saving done at the Cross !

    We are Saved by the Purpose of the Father, The Purchase of the Son and the Application of the Spirit , to the Glory of God !
     
  7. PreachTony

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    I was discussing your points. You stated that the Elect were never in danger of going to Hell; that there was no chance of an Elect person perishing in their sins. I merely asked you what the purpose of preaching was, as your statement conveys (as you've told me before) that men are born already saved or born already damned.
     
  8. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Pt

    Thats a lie, you have evaded them ! You have not explained them back to me !
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    pt

    I have a thread running on that subject and what I believe about the Gospel !
    Obviously you have evaded it also, be ready to prove to me you have read it and understood my points made:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=78636
     
  10. PreachTony

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    I don't appreciate being called a liar when the record is right in front of everyone that I was responding to a point you made in your OP. I don't have to respond to every point, line-by-line, that you made. In fact, much of your OP is just continual repeating of a few points. For example:
    You have a Bible verse surrounded by two other paragraphs, yet all three state the same thing, just slightly differently worded.

    I just want an answer to my question. You have stated clearly to me before, and in a more vague sense here, that man is either born saved or born damned. Assuming that is indeed the truth, then what is the point of preaching the gospel?

    I hope you'll actually take a moment and answer the question instead of just tossing out unfounded accusations.
     
  11. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    pt

    I dont care what you dont appreciate, you are in principle calling me a liar since you refuse to do what I asked ! I did not merely ask you to respond to a point i made, you best read my request again,liar !
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    You should leave that thing alone. This is all you will get from it.
     
  13. PreachTony

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    Agreed, Rev. I've already taken the customary deep breath, counted to ten, and walked away from it. I really shouldn't let that guy get to me, but I do... :BangHead: ... :tear:
     
  14. Revmitchell

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    That is what it wants to do. Don't give it that power.
     
  15. savedbymercy

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    Did you understand the points I made in the OP and the second post after it ?
     
  16. Revmitchell

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  17. PreachTony

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    Rev- Have you noticed lately an influx of BB members who seem to want to write their own books on the board? They start a thread and reply to themselves multiple times, or write increasingly longer posts each time... or am I the only one noticing that?
     
  18. Revmitchell

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    That and they use over sized font regularly as if it will get someone's attention that would not have otherwise noticed it. I do not read long diatribes, over-sized font, or continual posts.
     
  19. savedbymercy

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    I have argued in this thread that being saved is from 3 different perspectives in the scriptures! Can anyone tell me what they are?
     
  20. BobRyan

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    Is your point "ultimate arbitrary selection"?

    Or is our point "foreknowledge"??

    1 Peter 1
    To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.


    Or is this not a good text to discuss on this thread?


    in Christ,


    Bob
     
    #20 BobRyan, May 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2015

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