1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

What does it mean to live "incarnationally?"

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by FlyForFun, Aug 23, 2009.

  1. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    I, too, would like to know what you mean by the last sentence.
     
  2. rdwhite

    rdwhite New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, of course not. The obvious difference between the Christ and us humans is that he is a divine spiritual being that does not have a body of flesh. We however are in a fleshly (ie carnal) body. God came in the flesh by means of Jesus, thus the process of God taking a carnal form is incarnation. Jesus Christ, being God, had complete control over the flesh. Of course he did not live a carnal life.

    We are in the flesh already, and it is our battle to control this flesh, to mortify the members of the body, to put down the desires of the flesh. We are incarnate now, and for most of us, that is the main problem we experience. For a Christian to glory in his flesh, to brag about his flesh, goes against everything Paul wrote about the flesh. The world glories in its flesh, they brag about the flesh, they pamper the flesh, they expose the flesh for all the world to see.

    Just looking at the meaning of the words and how they apply to us as mortal beings; the opening post asked "what does it mean to live incarnationally?" and to me it means to live in the flesh, to live in a carnal manner giving into the desires of the flesh. Our Christian life is a spiritual battle in which we put the flesh down and live in the spirit.

    Romans 8: 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
    3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
     
  3. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,459
    Likes Received:
    1
    Using the word "incarnationally" is nothing more than a fad that will pass. What I think is more troubling is the above statement. What kind of nonsensical "church" do we have if the gospel must be "banned"? Without the gospel, the church is not the church.
     
  4. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    101
    Apologies, I cut and pasted a reply wrongly. That was supposed to be a general comment and not directed. I didn't hit the right buttons on my iPhone. :)
     
  5. Brandon C. Jones

    Brandon C. Jones New Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    0
    Terms such as "incarnational" and "missional" may be fads, but they both represent old concepts that are new to many American Christians. For those who use the terms they mean approaching the world with the gospel by following Jesus' example--both his actions and teachings.

    This link is from 2007, but I think it represents well why people like the term. You will also note there are some critical comments below it.

    Last year, David Fitch wrote a good article in Christianity Today called "Missional Misstep" where he wonders if having too big of a gospel makes it hard to communicate any gospel at all.

    I recommend checking out these sources before pronouncing what's good, bad, and ugly about these terms. For some here, I recommend revisiting what most Baptists believe about the incarnation.
     
    #25 Brandon C. Jones, Aug 24, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2009
  6. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    101
    Well I agree that our kergyma is molded by the Gospel and that speaking the Gospel is essential for seeing people brought into the Kingdom of God, that doing Gospel ministry is limited to just speech. There is an essential part of action that is about how we live before others. Part of an incarnational lifestyle is that we find ways of leveraging our relationships and influence to be able to speak that word. In reading the whole of the New Testament teaching on evangelizing we see there is a necessary linking between living and speaking the Gospel.
     
  7. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    101
    Sure:

    We are commanded to live before those who need to hear the Gospel in ways that are true to the Gospel and true to ourselves. Those who are outside of Christianity often have a depiction of Christians as quasi-perfect/plastic people who lie about their problems, wear spiritual masks, and act differently Monday through Saturday than they do on Sunday. Authenticity begins with Holy Spirit led humility. We live all the ways of God in living up to His standards.

    One necessary component of living this way is that it is both in the midst of and before those who are outside of Christ. It isn't that we syncretize the Christian life but that we allow ourselves to find, and possibly create, meaningful relationships in spaces that people outside of Christ live, work, and play in. These people won't find their way to our churches. We must go and get them.

    Yeah this got transferred badly, it should read:
    Incarnation isn't limited to Jesus. Though His incarnation is something we cannot obtain theologically.

    You know its interesting you never see the word "incarnation" in Scripture. That's okay because we get plenty of important and necessary theological concepts with different words. We see the concepts. In Scripture we see plenty of actions that are incarnations of beings who are other than human in human bodies. If you believe in theophanies, Christophanies, or physical angelic visits than you believe in incarnation outside of the ultimate event with Christ. A being whose composition is other than this human body takes form in this body. Satan to the serpent. Angels before many. God wrestling with some people.

    The point above, perhaps it is worded too intentionally, is that we, humans, cannot obtain to the premier theological event of incarnation of God the Son incarnating flesh in a virgin's womb. This is the theological framework of Christ's incarnation.

    The incarnational lifestyle suggests that while our lives are short of the sinless incarnation of Christ in human form that we can, and are obligated to live in a life infused by the power of the Holy Spirit before others so we might do our best to imitate Christ in how we act, speak, and live.

    Again I'm explaining how I use the term. It doesn't mean I'm asking anyone to replicate my language. This is how, in our community, we express this term and how we are to live. :)
     
  8. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    101
    Well one of the big things (more to your second question) is the gift of the Holy Spirit and the leadership in your life. One cannot follow Christ without the Holy Spirit. To the first, maybe it is a semantical thing for many people. For us (the people in our community) it is a reminder of the absolutely intentionality of our calling before others.
     
  9. FlyForFun

    FlyForFun New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    0
    Question: Is your "community" composed primarily of thesaurus writers?

    Just sayin....
     
  10. FlyForFun

    FlyForFun New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    0
    It doesn't matter how "authentically Christian" any "community" is, the Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing.

    It takes the miraculous work of the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Word to regenerate souls. Not fancy programs or fads.

    Holy circular logic, Batman.

    So we have to use the term "incarnational" to describe what essentially "Living in the Spirit"?

    Sign me up for the latter, please.

    Its easier to spell.:thumbsup:
     
  11. rdwhite

    rdwhite New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exactly!! My problem in this whole discussion is redefining a word to mean something that it does not mean. So does "Spirit filled life" now mean living in the flesh? And I suppose they could say carnally minded and really mean the mind of Christ.
     
  12. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    The words you are using are words I've read by the Emerging/emergent contingent ("perfect/plastic people," "spiritual masks," for example). Many of the Emergents seem to have been raised in what sounds like legalistic homes and they seem to judge all churches and all Christians from what they experienced. When they talk about churches, I don't recognize what they say in my church, any of my supporting churches, or many others I know of. I think they paint with a broad, broad brush. They have their own language and terms but they are often very ambiguous on doctrine.


    This is nothing new - that we must live Christ in our daily lives.


    I still don't understand it.

    Well, God/Jesus and angels coming in bodies (some people reject Theophanies and consider them to be Christophanies) do not really relate to humans. How does this justify the word "incarnational" for humans?


    This is very obtuse! We can't "obtain to the premier theological event of incarnation of God the Son incarnating flesh in a virgin's womb." What are you saying?
     
  13. nodak

    nodak Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,269
    Likes Received:
    16
    I can't debate here, but will post a question:

    Has anyone read "Christless Christianity" and if so how, would you apply it to this discussion?
     
Loading...