What does it mean to SUBMIT?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by evangelist6589, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    What does it mean? How would a wife submit to her husband? How would a man submit to a church? I have chosen not to submit to membership of the church as the pastor rarely if ever preaches on sin, repentance, judgment, hell, the holiness of God, justification, and such. He preaches to draw his attendance. But I have not gossiped nor caused division in the church so I have done nothing wrong.

    Likewise how does a wife submit to her husband? What would it look like? I know my mother submits to my father and if he did not like a church she would submit to him going elsewhere. The same with preparing tax returns, and doing just about anything else.
     
    #1 evangelist6589, Feb 4, 2014
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  2. Judith

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    I am assuming you are a female. First I would say you need to ask your husband to change churches and express why. Why would anyone attend a church where they disagree with the Pastor less of course the head, your husband, says this is where the Lord wants us? So yes I would say you are in sin there as we are to be under authority of a church whether we are members or not and you make it clear in spirit you are not so again you are in sin even though you claim to making no waves. The problem is you are making a statement of your displeasure, an unspoken wave, and that makes you in sin.

    Now to your question. The term submit means to be brought under, brought low, or to be under authority of someone or something. We submit to God. We are to submit one to the other. God has laid out how that is carried out in Eph. The woman submits differently to the husband than the husband to the wife but both are submitting to the other. You need to voice your concerns to your husband as he is your head, and if he is a wise and godly man he will find a church where you are in comfrontable with the preaching, or explain why this one is where he feels the Lord wants you. Either way, submit. If your husnabd says that you stay then join or you will remain to be in sin against your husbands authority as this is where he has chosen for you to be under the leadership's authority. You can tell the women about the things that you mentioned you feel are lacking although not mentioning they are lacking from the preaching.

    Now if you are male you are still in sin because in spirit you have not submitted to the leaderhip of the church. If God has lead you there then your rebellion is more serious as you are standing directly against God's authority. Either move or submit to the authority that God has set up.
     
    #2 Judith, Feb 4, 2014
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  3. Zaac

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    Submit means to place yourself underneath the authority of.It's an issue of Godly order.

    Evangelist I will say that it is not a wise thing to continue attending a church to whose authority you don't feel you can submit. That submission and authority is a picture of what our relationships with Christ and our families should look like so make sure your family has that Godly example. It is critical for men in the leading of and raising of a family.
     
  4. JamesL

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    I believe there's a difference between submitting to a pastor's authority, and agreeing with doctrine and practice.

    As far as doctrine, as many books as you read, you're going to encounter various interpretations of scripture. And from that variety, you're undoubtedly going to have your own doctrine formed in such a way that you take issue with what, or how, any pastor preaches. I've been in this situation in every church I've attended.

    Sometimes your disagreement will be miniscule, but other times it will be significant. Many believers aren't interested in learning the scriptures to the depth that you desire, and that can be a frustrating encounter because many pastors try to preach at the level of understanding he believes his congregation is at. You're almost always going to be looking for more depth, better exegesis, and what could otherwise be considered "less fluff"

    It's possible that you've wrongly perceived the pastor's motive as preaching for numbers, when he may simply be preaching to what he sees as a general lack of biblical understanding. I am not saying that this approach is good, because year after year the congregation is still biblically illiterate if he never brings them up.

    There are other elements of the Body of Christ that aren't necessarily related to correctness of doctrine. Remember earlier when I referred to "every church I've attended" ?

    For several years, I considered that I attended church. And the whole time I took issue with every little thing that didn't agree with my doctrine. I was pretty assertive at times, trying to convert everybody to my set of "truth". I honestly felt that if everybody could just see what I see in scripture, the whole place would have a great turnaround and become a thriving church.

    I'm sure everybody reading this can see the train wreck I caused everywhere I was.

    but God started working on me about 6 or 7 years ago. For 10 years, I lived in the Northland of the Kansas City area, but had met a girl and ended up moving 45 minutes away, to the East end of the Metro Area. After I got a divorce, and I got custody of our son, I was reflecting. We hadn't regularly "attended" anywhere since I'd moved. I wanted my son to have a church home, so I started praying about where we should go.

    God told me to start going to one particular church I had visited once, and it was an Assembly of God church. WHAT ?!? I was "attending" an AG church before I get saved, and never once heard the gospel. they were ALL heretics as far as I was concerned. I prayed again and again, thinking surely I had heard something wrong. I asked God pretty blatantly:

    "Why on earth would I possibly believe you want me to go there? What good could possibly come from it? You know I don't agree with anything they teach. You want me to go argue with them over their heresies?

    But God said to me, "I want you to be involved in a change in that church."

    Obviously, I was thinking a change in doctrine, and thought "Yeah, right. Like any denominational church is going to change their doctrine because of me."

    I really thought I had heard wrong about going there. But every time I prayed about it, that was all I was hearing. So I determined that we would attend there until I heard otherwise. I was in utter shock the very week. That pastor started a sermon series that week titled - Changing the Church

    for six weeks, he preached on bringing change into that church, and not one sermon had anything to do with doctrine. He felt that God was calling that church to a change from:
    dysfunction
    disunity
    division
    dissention
    hypocrisy
    From church attendance, to a life set on becoming one with a body


    We attended there for a while, I became victimized by hypocrisy and suspicion of motive. So I left. I had already moved a little distance away to a little town, and wanted to attend somewhere closer to home anyway. It was real easy to leave.

    The very next church I found was a little Pentecostal church right around the corner from our house. I didn't know anything about the church before I went there for the first time, the name was simply "Living Waters"

    The first time I went, it was a Wednesday night prayer meeting and bible study. I was awestruck by something. There was such a unity in that church, so far removed from what I had just gone through, that I didn't care one little bit about whether or not I agreed with their Arminian doctrine.

    That little church, and the people there, had four major elements that I absolutely needed at that time - They trusted God, They believed in prayer, They wanted to know His word more, and they loved each other like family. There was a unity there that I had never experienced anywhere before.

    I've looked back a few times, to when God first told me that he wanted me to "be involved" in a change in that AG church. I wrongly perceived that He was wanting me to help change them. But what He really meant is that He wanted them to help change me.

    I no longer look at church as "attendance"
    He has brought us back to the Northland, where I was ten years ago. We are now engaged in the little church where my son attends school. Our entire life is immersed in the Body of Christ, not simply "attending" one or twice a week.


    I'm telling you now, brother, you should not listen to those who say you should just bail because you don't agree. You should seek God in the matter, and try to be sensitive to what He wants for you. He may just be wanting to work on you at that church.

    If that's the case, and you run from Him working on you there, you will waste a lot of years being run through the wilderness before He brings you back to start over.
     
  5. exscentric

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    Now, many times I have defined "submit" with a simple look at the word. "Sub" simply means under and "mit" simply means closed hand or fist. Now, I have yet to find a class that would buy my definition so doubt it will fly well here either so I will just turn the thread back to the subject :) I might add that some of those classes were in independent baptist churches and the classes saw some application to their church government.
     
  6. Yeshua1

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    Submitting starts FIRST with subnission to Jesus and His plans and will for your life...

    From there, wives are to submit, allow for their husbands to be leaders of the family, to drive their ship so to speak, but God demands the Husband be one "like Christ", whose actions will allow wife to submit joyfully!

    but she does NOT have to submit if the husband is doing things, acting in a fashion either illegal, or else against commands of God!

    In like fashipn, we submit to the authority the Lord placed over us, IF they are following theteachings and commands of the Bible though!

    Not saying cannot disagree with them, but have to agree with direction and general ways they feel Lord is leading and directing them!
     
  7. annsni

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    We look at submit as being under the same mission. That means I place myself under the same calling that my husband has been called to which in our case is to live in NY and for my husband to be a pastor. It has meant that I have had to set aside some of my desires and wishes but I have not been silenced in our relationship and often times, my husband hears my opinion and has changed his mind on things. Other times God has changed my heart or He has changed my husband's heart apart from my opinion.

    When we submitted to the authority at our church, we've had to set aside some of our desires and wishes and continue supporting the church in it's mission. We don't agree with everything - and I don't think you'll find a church with anyone agreeing 100% with how things are done. That's just part of living in this world but if there was ever a time we could no longer support the church in the mission that it is doing, it is time for us to leave. I don't believe in just attending a church and not committing to it unless you are just checking it out.

    Honestly, in reading your posts, I see a lot of red flags - and not on your church's part.
     
  8. evangelist6589

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    I spoke to a Reformed Baptist pastor today and he gave me some ideas and will give me some FREE books that may help my wife. He agreed that a church that does not openly preach on sin is not healthy. He also recommended I read The Cross of Christ by John Stott and have my wife read it also. I need to buy that book.
     
  9. evangelist6589

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    Spoke to a Reformed Baptist Pastor today (not by online but a real person) and he is gonna give me some books to try and help my wife. He agrees a church that does not openly preach on sin is problematic and not worth being a member of.
     
  10. evangelist6589

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    That is the key phrase here. How can a church that doe snot openly preach on sin and openly preach doctrine and the biblical gospel be following the Lord?
     
  11. evangelist6589

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    Well I am no question not a female. However don't I wish there were more female open air preachers, street evangelists, and females that stood up for the truth!!! Amen!!!

    Yes I have a complicated matter and one of which I will be meeting a pastor in town whom is Reformed.
     
  12. annsni

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    My question is this:

    How often should the church preach on sin to make you comfortable? Weekly? Monthly? Maybe it's best that you get e-mails daily making sure you remember that you are a wretch?

    Honestly, I know there are churches that never speak about sin ever. But I also know that there are plenty of churches that do but not every week or maybe not in the "You are a horrible sinner, you break the law every day and you need to repent" method you are fond of. I wonder if that is what your church is like.
     
  13. Gina B

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    I'm kind of curious why you need a guy to openly preach on sin. Surely you know what sin is.
    How about someone to teach you how to live, how to apply scripture to your life? How to avoid falling away? That kind of stuff? So you don't sin, right?
    If you're doing so good that you can't figure out if you're sinning and need someone to tell you, I'd say you need to be the one doing the preaching. Come on over...or just start typing. I'm listening. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  14. prophet

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    1Ti 5:20
    20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

    This isn't referring to prophecy. This means personally addressing, naming and rebuking the individual who is sinning.

    Most cowardly 'pastors' prefer to 'preach em down the aisle', or incorporate their rebuke into a sermon. So everyone hears 45 minutes of appeal to something they would have asked for help with privately, if they were facing.
    And the unrepentent sinner can just ignore, or ditch until God chastens him to repent.

    And then there is the brain surgeon who has a big 3 list...Smoking, Drinking, Cussing...
    One isn't mentioned.
    One isn't always a sin.
    One is a misunderstood concept, cheapened by Rome.
     
  15. evangelist6589

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    Actually when a church does open invitations with the music playing every week and does not hit on total depravity, or God's judgment I have a problem. Besides that the church is fine as far as their friendliness, small groups, fellowship, and the like. But a key problem is a weak understanding of Biblical Theology and the Gospel.
     
    #15 evangelist6589, Feb 5, 2014
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  16. salzer mtn

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    What does it mean to SUBMIT? Never ending Honey do's.
     
    #16 salzer mtn, Feb 5, 2014
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  17. Don

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    It takes two to have an argument or a problem.

    That finger you keep pointing at your pastor and your wife? Which way are the other fingers pointing?
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    excellent book!
    That and Knowing God 2 of my favorites when first saved to get into!

    Too bad that Stott in the end turned to sinners being burnt up and destroyed though...
     
  19. Yeshua1

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    think also our friend might be confusing hold to reformed doctrines as onlyw way a church can be true to theLord, for while I endorse their DoG, i will not go so far as to say ONLY those pastors teaching reformed/calivintic theology are promoting 'sound doctrine"...

    As Gina poste don this, more to the christian walk than just the Gospel message, as need to get into the Epistles for how to practice and live it out!
     
  20. evangelist6589

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    I am sorry if I communicated that for its not what I meant.
     

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