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Featured what does the bible say God requires of us in order to save us?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    James wrote this (see James 2:19) in order to show his audience that they were using the wrong form of belief to "prove" their salvation. There is mere belief, and then there is saving belief. In the Greek, the word for salvic faith is pisteuo, which sets itself apart from other forms of the same word by emphasizing the genuineness of the faith spoken of; that is, the acceptance of God of that level of faith as being salvic in nature.

    The demons obviously did not have this level of faith, as they did nothing with it but shudder in the realization that Christ was their downfall. On the other hand, the believer has this level of faith solely due to God's recognition of it as valid and true, by which He thus grants the believer access to Himself. Such faith is more than belief that Christ is Savior. It is a belief in Him as able to save. The difference is, because you (for example) have that level of faith, you were able to act in the way you describe, forsaking sin because of who Christ is and what He has done for you.
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Satan and His demons cannot repent. they refuse to even acknowledge God for who and what He is, so their rebellion cast them into being locked into eternal rebellion against their Creator...

    We are just as they are, in rebellion, until the Lord applies His saving Grace towards us, and he enables to repent/believe/turn to Christ and get saved!

    this takes an act of God, as without Him choosing to save and redeem us, we are stuck like satan is!
     
  3. Gup20

    Gup20 Active Member

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    Ah, but demons will not confess that Christ is risen from the dead. (believe with heart, and confess with mouth to be saved)

    1Jo 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
    2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;​

    If one does not turn from sin, then I believe James tells us that this is a demonstration that they do not have true or genuine faith. Anyone with true or genuine faith will turn from sin, but one is not even able to do that without first being saved.

    Rom 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,​

    It is not the turning from sin that saves... it is the salvation that causes one to turn from sin. For how can someone who is a slave to sin, turn away from it? Or how can someone who has truly been made righteous by their faith continue to live in sin?
     
  4. Gup20

    Gup20 Active Member

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    Indeed - James speaks of justifying FAITH, whereas Paul speaks about justifying the PERSON (by faith). James is not saying "salvation is not by faith alone"... he is saying faith alone is not true faith. James is talking about what true faith is, he isn't saying that A MAN is justified by works, he is saying that FAITH is justified by works. A man is justified by faith alone.

    The whole book of James is talking about strengthening and perfecting FAITH, not strengthening and perfecting salvation, or the person.

    Jam 1:6 But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind.​

    James is all about building our faith, not about salvation. It is addressed to believers, not to the unsaved.

    Jam 2:21
    Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
    22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
    23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.​

    Either, James is talking strictly about "perfecting faith" (strengthening and building faith) and not about "perfecting a person" (salvation, making righteous) or James is a walking contradiction to the rest of scripture:

    Gal 3:3
    Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
    6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
    11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”


    Rom 4:3
    For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
    4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
    5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,


    Eph 2:8
    For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
    9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.​

    We know from Romans 4:11 that Abraham was made righteous (saved) by his faith in the gospel BEFORE he was circumcised. He offered Isaac on the altar about 20 years after that. So it wasn't that works saved Abraham or made Abraham righteous, but those works demonstrated, strengthened, and built Abraham's faith. It proved his faith to be true and real. It had nothing to do with his salvation or righteousness, as that had happened decades before.

    Furthermore, The Law was not given until over 400 years later... so the "works" that Abraham did to confirm that his faith was genuine were not following the law, but rather it was that he didn't allow doubt to weaken his faith.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Romans 10 comes to mind.

    8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
    9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
    10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
    12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
    13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
    NKJV


    9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
    10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
    11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
    12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
    13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Delete this
     
    #26 BobRyan, Aug 31, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2013
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    delete this
     
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