What does the Catholic Church say about us who believe in salvation by faith alone?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by annsni, May 6, 2016.

  1. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,198
    Likes Received:
    376
    This is an excellent article by Tim Challies. He has been doing a series on false teachers and he recently had a post on Pope Frances being a false teacher. Obviously he got some negative feedback to that and so instead of arguing, he used the Catholic Church's own words to show that we do not teach the same salvation.

    What are your thoughts?

    http://www.challies.com/articles/anti-catholic-or-pro-gospel
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. Zenas

    Zenas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    It is a very accurate portrayal and comparison, although it is Challies who misunderstands the teachings of scripture. Trent got it right, at least on this topic.
     
  3. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,198
    Likes Received:
    376
    And from what I see in Scripture, I will absolutely 100% disagree with you. Challies joins millions of Christians who have the same understanding from the Scriptures from the first century to today.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. utilyan

    utilyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,005
    Likes Received:
    21

    Why did you have to check scriptures? why not just faith alone?

    And if you respond......... why did you need to respond? and not just faith alone?

    Faith Alone would be neat trick if anyone actually did it.



    Jesus didn't practice Faith Alone, that be the exemplar footsteps to follow.

    His method is clearly superior.
     
  5. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    This will sum up the stance of the truly converted:

    For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— Philippians 3:3

    And if anyone has trouble with this:

    I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

    For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Galatians 1:8-10


    God beat apostate Rome to the punch having already pronounced His anathema on all false gospels, including the RC version. Ironic isn't it?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Zenas

    Zenas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    Apparently these passages of scripture didn’t make it into Challies’ Bible, or yours either.

    “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ Matthew 25:34-40.

    Not even any hint of faith here.

    And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.” Matthew 18:34-35.

    Nothing about faith here either, but maybe a little work in forgiving your neighbor will be required.

    “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.” John 15:1-2

    Nothing about faith here but you mustbear fruit or you’re toast.

    You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. James 2:24-26.

    Anyone who say works isn't necessary to go to Heaven is living is denial.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  7. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    As is typical of apostate Rome, there is the quoting of the passages of Scriptures that describe what salvation looks like (descriptive) and making them into prescriptive passages (do this and you'll go to heaven).

    That's another gospel altogether.

    And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:11-13
     
  8. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,198
    Likes Received:
    376
    Wow! So we don't need Jesus. Just do good things and we know that we can stand before God and say "Open the door to heaven because I was a good person and I earned it!!" And what verse would that be?
     
  9. Zenas

    Zenas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    All I did is what the sola fide crowd always does--quote the faith passages and ignore the works passages. I did the opposite. Of course you must have both. Neither is optional. The differences lie not so much in faith vs. works but in the concept "once saved, always saved" or as Baptists put it, "eternal security of the believer."

    The eternal security doctrine relies on scripture like John 10:28 and unfortunately ignores other passages that have to be harmonized with it. It was unheard of before the Reformation and is still rejected by the overwhelming majority of Christians. It is perhaps best expressed in the Baptist Faith and Message which says in Part V:

    All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

    Implicit in this belief is the concept that when a person is saved all sins are forgiven, past, present and future. Now I don't believe that because there are too many passages that talk about people going to Hell for bad works or for failure to do good works. Moreover it completely vitiates 1 John 1:8-10.

    I fully embrace Ephesians 2:8-10 as the formula for salvation. However, after that you must maintain your salvation by good works and refraining from sin. Falling from grace is real and scriptural. Galatians 5:4.

    So yes, faith alone is heresy.
     
  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes Received:
    454
    How many works did the thief on the cross have?
    True saving faith will always result in good works, given time (Ephesians 2:8-10), but works are the result and the proof of salvation, not the cause.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Zenas

    Zenas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    Maybe you should go back and read my post, or at least this part of it: I fully embrace Ephesians 2:8-10 as the formula for salvation. However, after that you must maintain your salvation by good works and refraining from sin.
    The thief had no opportunity to do any good works or, for that matter to commit any sins. When Jesus declared he was pure, he was pure, and he died that way. Now let's imagine that Pilate had gotten a change of heart about this thief--Dismas was his name according to tradition-- and ordered him taken down from the cross. Now he starts to feel lucky and returns to his old way of life. I submit that Dismas would never have seen the inside of the pearly gates.

    And while works may be the result of salvation, sometimes, they are not necessarily the proof. Do you think our Mormon friends are saved? You would be hard pressed to find anyone who does more good works than a faithful Mormon.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes Received:
    454
    I'm delighted to hear that you accept salvation by faith alone, which is what Ephesians 2:8-10 teaches. However, the idea that having been saved by Christ, you can be somehow 'unsaved;' that you can be 'in Christ' one minute, and out again the next, and maybe back in again at some later stage, is not biblical. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one" (John 10:27-30). Please notice that Christ's sheep have been given to Him by the Father (John 6:37-40). Is He going to lose any of them? I don't think so.

    Those who are saved by Christ are those who have been born again by the Holy Spirit. They are no longer what they were. They cannot and do not live they way they used to (1 John 1:6; 5:18 etc.). It is possible for one of Christ's sheep to become a lost sheep for a while, but the Good Shepherd will come and find him and bring him back (Luke 15:4-7). If He does not do so; if the erring sheep never returns to the fold, it is because he is not one of the Lord's flock. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me." To unrepentant sinners, our Lord is going to say, "I never knew you!" Not, "I knew you once and then forgot about you."
    Amen! He is a fine example of salvation by faith alone.
    Imagination should have no part in theology. Hear the word of God. 'What God has cleansed, you must not call common' (Acts 10:15). The thief had been born again by the Spirit of God. His eternal destiny was absolutely secure. 'Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, to God our Saviour, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever, Amen' Jude 24-25).
    Good works cannot help those who have not been saved by grace through faith in Christ alone. To the unsaved, good works are like filthy rags.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,134
    Likes Received:
    52
    trent got it totally wrong, as they missed the Justification of the gospel of Jesus, as expounded unto us thru and by Apostle paul...

    And we know that they are in rejection of the true Gospel message, as trent made it quite clear that anyone like me, who denies the truths of the papacy, water baptism as saving you, sacramental grace system, and who holds to saved by grace alone thru faith alone, are condemned by God....
     

Share This Page

Loading...