What does this scripture mean and how do you interpret it?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Jordan Kurecki, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

    What is your opinion/ interpretation of purified seven times?

    is the KJV this 7th purification?
     
  2. Winman

    Winman
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    Well, this scripture has extra meaning to me, because I work in metallurgy, and we use furnaces to purify steel.

    We heat steel up to around 1550 degrees F to purify it, to impregnate it with carbon and other features. I don't actually run the furnaces, so I can't explain exactly what goes on. But the furnaces have to be an exact heat +/- 10 degrees, and the metal must travel through the furnace at a set speed. So it must be heated an exact time.

    We then have what is called "quench" which cools the metal instantly. This also removes impurities and creates a "grain", not unlike wood grain. However, the quench makes the steel brittle like glass.

    We then super-cool the steel down to minus 120 degrees F. This removes more impurities and again forms the perfect size grain. However, the steel is very brittle now.

    Finally we must "temper" the steel which makes it soft and malleable, so that it does not crack. It is no longer brittle. This is done by heating the steel up to from around 350-700 degrees F for a specified time. Everything must be very exact.

    So, there are quite a few steps to making good steel that is durable for the purpose intended and will not crack under stress.

    What is amazing to me is that this science goes back thousands of years. Steel has to be made in an "atmosphere", or various gases to be made properly. I am amazed they discovered this in the ancient past.

    Anyway, enough of that, this scripture tells me the word of God is pure. It does not contain mistakes. It is without error. It is like silver that has been melted down 7 times and all the impurities scrapped off so that it is as pure as it can possibly be.

    Now, I have heard theories about the word of God being purified 7 times in English. There might be something to this, or maybe not.

    That doesn't matter to me, I believe God has preserved his word by faith, and in English I believe it is the King James Bible.
     
  3. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    So if it is purified, can it become any more purified? is it possible for the metal to reach a point to where it cannot be purified anymore?
     
  4. Winman

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    Well, we do not actually purify steel for the sole purpose of it being pure, we want steel to be strong and malleable. We primarily make aircraft engine bearings that must be able to endure tremendous speeds and temperatures.

    In ancient days they probably did want silver to be extremely pure for certain purposes such as jewelry, or to make shields and swords.

    But yes, 7 times would be extremely pure.
     
  5. Scarlett O.

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    The verse means exactly what it says it means. The word of the Lord is so pure that it is comparable to silver being purified in a furnace seven times.

    It's an analogy of two separate things.

    The purity of God's words = silver purified over and over and over.

    What it does NOT say is that God's word is purified seven times. Or written seven times. Or translated seven times. Or edited seven times. One would have to completely obliterate the given sentence and make up their own for the sentence to say that God's word is purified seven times.

    The seven has no connection with the words of God. The seven is connected to the analogy of pure silver.

    Even if the seven WERE connected to the words, the King James Bible isn't the 7th English speaking Bible to be written.
     
    #5 Scarlett O., Nov 17, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  6. Amy.G

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    Why would God's word need to be purified? Wasn't it pure when God spoke it? And He didn't speak it in English.
     
  7. Winman

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    No, the Holy Spirit spoke in MANY different languages on the day of Pentacost.

    Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
    9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
    10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
    11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

    I don't know how different these areas were from one another, but at least 16 different areas are mentioned. And the Holy Spirit spoke in the tongue or language of every one of them.

    I don't know if I subscribe to the theory that God's word had to be purified seven times, I simply believe that Psa 12:6 is using this analogy to show us how perfectly pure God's word is.

    Of course, most here at the BB think the scriptures are full of all sorts of errors, regardless of what language they are written in, including the original Hebrew and Greek.
     
  8. Amy.G

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    Yes, the gospel was preached in many languages that day, but the scriptures were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek ONLY, and God did not need to purify His words!
     
  9. Winman

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    And you believe they are all full of errors don't you?

    Where are the perfect preserved scriptures?
     
  10. Amy.G

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    No I don't.
     
  11. Winman

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    Then WHERE are the preserved perfect scriptures?
     
  12. Amy.G

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    You confuse a perfectly preserved parchment with God's word. God's word exists in many translations, English and otherwise. And any Bible whether the KJV or a more modern version IS a translation and is subject to translational errors or printing errors. Does that mean God's WORD is lost? How ridiculous!
    Did ancient middle eastern people strain a gnat "out" of their water? Or did they strain "at" a gnat?
     
  13. Logos1560

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    The truth that is stated in Psalm 12:6 is the fact that "the words of the LORD are pure words" meaning 100% absolutely and wholly pure. Pure used in the particular context of describing the quality of the words of the LORD given to the prophets and apostles would clearly be asserting 100% absolute, complete purity or perfection with no mixture of any impurities at all. After the assertion of fact, then an illustration, simile, or comparison is given [as] to confirm that truth, not to contradict it by suggesting that there were some impurities in the pure words given to the prophets and apostles. Thus, the phrase "purified seven times" (Ps. 12:6) actually stated clearly concerning silver on earth is used to illustrate and affirm that the words of the LORD are 100% wholly, absolutely, completely, and perfectly pure when given by God. This phrase about the refining or purification of silver obviously and clearly does not contradict the earlier assertion or statement of fact. That phrase does not indicate or assert that the words of the LORD are mostly pure or almost pure with a few impurities, defects, faults, corruptions, errors, or contaminants mixed in so that they needed to go through an improvement or refining process of seven purifications in seven English translations or in seven purifications of the various editions of the KJV.

    Words of the LORD asserted to be wholly and completely pure in the positive or absolute degree could not be made more pure. Thus, the quality of being completely pure and completely free from all impurities that is asserted concerning the words of the LORD could not be increased. Nothing can be asserted to be more pure than what is already 100% absolutely pure according to the meaning of pure used in the context. Pure is clearly not used in a comparative degree concerning the 100% absolutely and completely pure and perfect words of the LORD. The word of the LORD is perfect (Ps. 19:7). Pure words of the LORD have the very same absolute, complete purity as very pure words (Ps. 119:140). The use of “very” would emphasize the fact of the absolute purity, but it could not increase the purity of words that are already 100% wholly and absolutely pure.


    KJV-only subjective, private interpretations or misinterpretations could be considered examples of eisegesis, reading into the verse ideas that were not actually stated in it. Thomas Corkish agreed: “Some have mistakenly said that the Bible has need to be ’tried’ (’refined’) seven times in order for it to be given as ’pure.’ Actually, it was as ’refined’ silver from the beginning” (Brandenburg, Thou Shalt Keep Them, pp. 143-144). He added: “The Bible is not a pure Word because of any derivation, development, revision, recovery, or improvement” (p. 149). KJV-only author Gary Miller wrote: “Purifying something seven times makes it almost perfect. But God’s words are perfect” (Why the KJB, p. 16). H. D. Williams acknowledged: “God’s Words are in no need of being ’cleansed’ or ’purified’” (Pure Words, p. 53).

     
  14. Winman

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    I do? What exactly do you mean by this? What are you saying?

    Wait a minute, I thought you believed the word of God was only preserved in the original languages? Isn't that what you believe? Now you are saying it exists in many languages.

    And where is that preserved and perfect word of God in the original languages? And how do you know they are exactly like the originals?

    Then you do not believe the word of God is preserved. I asked you before if you believed all scripture is full of error and you said NO, now you are saying the opposite.

    Actually, you ARE saying the word of God is lost. If all we have are translations full of errors, then the perfect word of God is lost. To say otherwise is what is ridiculous.

    What does the word of God say?

    You can't answer can you?
     
    #14 Winman, Nov 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  15. Logos1560

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    The KJV translators identified the pre-1611 English Bibles as being the word of God. Do you suggest that the pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV is a revision are not the word of God?

    The word of God in English before 1611 stated "strain out at gnat."

    Some editions of the KJV also have "strain out a gnat" including some printed by the King's printer at London in the 1700's and some present day editions.

    Matthew 23:24 [strain out--1560 Geneva, 1568 & 1602 Bishops, NKJV]
    strain off (1824 Boothroyd)
    strain out [1873 Cambridge] {1759, 1760, 1763, 1764 London} (1784 Piguent) (1911 TCE) (2000, 2002 ZOND) (TPB) (HPB) (2008, 2010, 2011 HEND) (NHPB) (1833 WEB) (1842 Bernard) (1851 Cone)
     
  16. Amy.G

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    I'm saying God still speaks even though the original manuscripts are gone.



    I've never said that.

    The original manuscripts no longer exist.
    How do you know what we have is exactly like the originals?


    I never said all scripture is full of error. I said that when translating from one language to another errors can be made. Such as strain "at" a gnat. But that doesn't mean God's word is full of error, only that the translators made an error. The context of the passage clearly shows the word should have been "out". So God's teaching is preserved. His word is preserved.




    No I'm not and you know it. God's word is more than just "words". It's the whole meaning of what He wants us to know.



    Sure I can. But you'll have to be more specific. What does God's word say about what?? :laugh:
     
  17. Winman

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    That's not the way it works, I asked first, what does the word of God say?
     
  18. Jordan Kurecki

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    So if the words of God are pure, but all translations and all Greek texts are impure, then we do not really have these pure words of God, the pure words of God do not exist on earth in reality, according to you guys the pure words of God are not something any person on earth can really get their hands on because all translations have errors. You absolutely do not believe in the doctrine of preservation, because there is nowhere to find a preserved pure word, it's strictly imaginative in your minds.
     
  19. Scarlett O.

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    Pure literally - in Hebrew - means "clean". You are seemingly trying to say - and correct me if I am wrong - that pure means "verbatim" to something. God's word is pure in the sense that His words are truth and can be trusted far more than anything in the world.

    Preserve - in Hebrew - literally means guarded or kept. Again you seem to in implying it means "verbatim". God has preserved His word in that even though we have translations that aren't the original copies or original languages, His meaning and supernatural power of those meanings have remained intact.

    Here is the Bible verse, Jeremiah 33:3 - one of my favorites. It's in several English translations and it's ALL pure and preserved - ALL clean and kept. The original meaning and trustworthiness of God's word in Jeremiah has not changed even though the man-made languages, grammar styles, word meanings, spellings, and other language-specific nuances may change.

     
    #19 Scarlett O., Nov 18, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  20. Winman

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    Well, that's all fine and dandy, but according to the Critical Text, the last 12 verses (vs. 9-20) of Mark 16 are not supposed to be there. There are many other differences besides, but this passage is the most famous.

    It is impossible that that the word of God should both contain and omit these verses, so either the Received Text contains extra words and is not preserved, or the Critical Text is missing words and is not preserved.
     
    #20 Winman, Nov 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013

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