What exactly does "...not under law, but under grace..." mean?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Daniel David, Jan 3, 2004.

  1. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    For any covenantalists and those who think we are still bound to the 10 commandments, could you explain Romans 6:14?
     
  2. Ransom

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    Daniel David asks:

    For any covenantalists and those who think we are still bound to the 10 commandments, could you explain Romans 6:14?

    It means that since we have died with Christ, we are dead to the Law and no longer under its jurisdiction. And so being dead to the Law, we are free from its condemnation and enslavement to sin.

    And since Christ lives within us by proxy, in the person of the Holy Spirit actively working to conform us to Christ's likeness, we are not only free from sin but free to live righteously for God through the help of the Holy Spirit who empowers us.
     
  3. Daniel David

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    Ransom, excellent.

    Do you see any historical significance?
     
  4. Ransom

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    Not sure what you mean by "historical significance."

    I know that in relatively recent times, the catch-phrase "We're not under law but under grace" has come to mean the exact opposite of Paul's intent - it gets used to excuse loose living. I'd blame it on the antinomian tendencies in some Dispensationalist circles, but I doubt that most of the people who say it are that theologically sophisticated. (Yah, I'm cynical.)
     
  5. Major B

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    Ransom, 100% correct. My own theology, beyond conservative evangelical, could best be categorized as progressive dispensational with a sotierology that is fairly calvinistic. Having said that, I doubt there are four people within 20 miles of where I sit who could define any of those words with any accuracy. As for the Law, I believe that 9 of the 10 decalogue commands, minus the Sabbath, of course, are in effect, because they were re-confirmed in the New Covenant. This also would apply to other moral command re-confirmed in the New Covenant. These apply today as a guide for life. Even in the Covenants of Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David, none of the OT Law was a way of salvation (I believe that has only and always been by faith--Gen 15:6), so the aspect some throw up is a red herring. The greatest threat to the integrity of the church today is in people who believe that Christianity is a conduct-neutral faith.
     
  6. donnA

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    The problem of misunderstadning this verse is the same as people had in the bible. The pharasees added more laws to people's burden, and today you meet christians trying to make laws to add to the burden that Christ has already taken care of. This verse relieves us of the burdens of law and gives us freedom in Christ(as has been stated), some would have us so burdened down with their laws that Jesus can no longer be seen.
     
  7. Trotter

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    As Christians, we are not bound to the demands of the Law, and I thank God for it! It really kills me, though, when I see people trying to live it (Ten Commandments, dietary rescrictions).

    The Ten Commandments are God given, and are true. Nine of them are still in appliance for Christians (as stated above), because they were re-given in the NT to be used and obeyed.

    The dietary restrictions God gave to Moses are good, tailored to the time and climate that the nation Israel was in. But God also gave us the command to not declare unclean what he has declared clean. Plus, I really love my shrimp and pork chops :D `.

    It is truly sad to see people struggling under this dreadful burden. I used to work in Ooltewah, TN (home of Southern Adventist University), and had a lot of Seventh Day Adventists as co-workers. They would sit and argue that they were right for obeying the Ten Commandments and abiding by the dietary restrictions. But, when you asked them if they kept the whole Law (including the required sacrifices), they started backpedaling, saying that you were just trying to confuse the issue.

    Oh, well...I guess I've just got a mean streak about two miles wide. :D [​IMG] ;)

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  8. Precepts

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    Either you have a screw loose, which would explain the elevator problem, or you totally misunderstood what I've said in the other thread.

    Or it could just be that you tend to write into other's posts something that just isn't there.

    The key to be Biblically correct in what Ransom said is "we are free to live righteously", not free to righteously live however we please.

    If you're just doting about unlearned questions, then I'll have Biblical rights to AVOID you. Besides, you really made yourself look as the fool in the "Fundamentalist" forum. :rolleyes: [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  9. Daniel David

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    QS, you didn't answer the question (surprisingly :rolleyes: ).

    This text has historical relevance because the mosaic law is no longer the rule over a person. It was, but not anymore. Grace is to rule, and grace reigns in righteousness.

    Stop putting your hands over your ears and blabbing la la la la la la la la la I can't hear you.
     
  10. Precepts

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    Some people are worth hearing, others deserve to be ignored, you've earned the latter.

    You just can't get it through your "educated above your intelligence" mind that Jesus satisfied the requirements of the "Ceremonial" portion of the Mosaic Law as described in Hebrews 8,9,10, can you?

    But then again, you also have a problem with "striving lawfully" too, huh?

    II Timothy 2:1 ¶ Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
    2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
    3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
    4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
    5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
    6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.
    7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

    Hebrews 9:8 ¶ The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
    9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
    10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
    11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
    12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
    13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
    15 ¶ And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
    16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

    NOTE: All scripture from the Authorized Version/ King James Bible.

    If you use a version that contradicts what the A.V. says, that is where you err, and it's no wonder you conclude false theologies, some "wrest" with the scriptures to their own hurt,DD.


    Please, don't answer these two questions, not until you've read Hebrews again, if you have really read it in the beginning. :rolleyes: [​IMG]
     
  11. Precepts

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    Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    But what about when you give in to temptation and willfully sin? Is there not the ramifications of the Law of God that requires continual repentence for revealed sin?

    Oh, is it you are of the "sinless perfection" crowd?

    DD, only Jesus Christ was sinless and had the power to become sin for all creation.

    The soul is the only part of us that becomes sinless and not required to submit to the authority of God's Law, the flesh is not eradicated and therefore is temptable, but the spirit/ mind,will, and emotions, are subjected to the letter of the Moral portion of the Law. Like I stated in the above post and have so MANY times before, ONLY the Ceremonial portion of the Law is "done away".

    The Law says ,"Thou shalt not steal". Grace does not abrogate the Law and delegate that a born again believer will not steal, the command still remains, BUT! the ceremonial aspect to stealing WAS atoned for by the ceremonial rites, BUT! Jesu Christ did away with that.

    Now, next question:

    Explain 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    Is not "sin" against the Law of God? I've already made note to the explanation to this verse above and the only reason I made reference is a child of God is not without sin in this mortal body, not even is it beyond his "born again" spirit, so it MUST only be related to the soul, or you make God a liar to inspire John the Beloved to pen this Epistle.

    I almost wonder, are you with this movement to deny the existence of sin? If that isn't apostacy, I don't know what is!

    P.S.
    Being under grace only allows us to come before the Throne of Mercy in true repentence without making another sacrifice,God wouldn't recognize it even if you could. I John 1:9, you CANNOT crucify Christ afresh anyway. Harmony of Scripture, I LIKE IT!
     
  12. Precepts

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    I don't see where anyone stated ANY laws adding to anyone's burden, but I do see some accuse others of doing just that.

    I do see alot of hyperbole concerning this issue.

    Can you explain what Jesus meant in Luke 14 when He said if a man bear not his cross, and come after me he cannot be my disciple? Not the Cross, but the individual's cross. What is this "cross" our Lord and Saviour refers to? Does it have anything to do with living a holy, unblamable life? Dying to one's self and striving to do lawfully?
     
  13. Bethelassoc

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    This is one of the passages that come to my mind:

    Matthew 22

    35. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

    36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

    37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

    38. This is the first and great commandment.

    39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    This reminds me that the sting of the law is no longer on me, but his grace in which His greatest commandments envelope the 10 commandments and the prophets words. Only through Christ can I now keep His commandments by following verses 37 and 39.
     
  14. Pete Richert

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    Is the Lord pleased with such statements?
     

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