What exactly is "the deep"?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by word_digger, Jan 7, 2004.

  1. word_digger

    word_digger
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    In Luke 8:31 the devils beg Jesus not to consign them to "the deep" so, instead, He allows them to enter the swine which, consequently, run down the hill and drown in a lake. Most people think that the lake close-by is "the deep" the devils don't want to go into. That does not appear to be the case, according to the Greek word here:


    Strongs:

    abussoV abussos ab'-us-sos


    from 1 (as a negative particle) and a variation of 1037; depthless, i.e. (specially) (infernal) "abyss":--deep, (bottomless) pit.


    This presents a problem in the case of Luke 8:31 because in verse Luke 8:33 the word for the nearby lake is:

    Strongs:

    limnh limne lim'-nay

    probably from 3040 (through the idea of nearness of shore); a pond (large or small):--lake.


    The "deep" in 8:31 and the nearby lake in 8:33 do not appear to be the same places. This is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word for the abyss, which is used in Genesis 1:2. People normally assume that "the deep" is the earth's ocean in that verse. But if it was a reference to the ocean or sea, then there is also a problem because the sea is nowhere near this place. So what exactly is this "abyss" in both Genesis 1:2 (In the Hebrew) and in Luke 8:31 (in Greek)?

    Look at this peculiar wording:

    Luke 8:31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go OUT INTO the deep. (emphesis mine)

    It does not appear to be a reference to Hell, either, because the direction to it is OUT not DOWN.

    Could "the deep" here in both verses be a reference to the 'deep' of outer space or the regions outside the material world?

    The Scriptures interpret themselves and, if they can not be broken, then there is a valuable interpretational nugget in Luke that provides a better understanding of the context 'deep' back in Genesis 1:2. Could the 'deep' spoken of in Genesis 1:2 be the entire physical realm of space and time under the third heaven?

    Is this question TOO DEEP for you (smile)?
    :D [​IMG]
     
  2. BillyMac

    BillyMac
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    I like your interpretive thought.

    Eventually I must defer to those who have a greater knowledge of the scriptures than I do, but there seems to be a possible linkage between the DEEP and those vast depths of space since Satan is the ruler of one of those realms of the heavens. Don't misunderstand; I did not say Heaven.

    There is realm that exists that is called either the first or second heaven. And I think it is the 1st heaven that lies somewhere between earth's atmosphere and out there somewhere.

    Help all you Bible scholars!!! Could this also be the DEEP???
     
  3. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows
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    Interesting one. It's deep man! ;)

    The deep in Genesis is "te-hom". This Hebrew word usually translates well as "abyss". It is often rendered "abyssos" in the Greek OT but this is not always the case. The origin of this word is uncertain. Some suspect it derives from the primordial Akkadian earth/water goddess Tiamat. The connotation of te-hom is "way down in nowhere land". It is often used to describe the underworld as such. To be sent into the abyss is to be sent far far away, isolated from everything living - even isolated from God. This is how the psalmists in distress seemed to view that place called "sheol" - although they did not always call it "sheol". The underworld is something that's a little murky in the Bible. We are often taught that Jews envisioned a place (sheol) where all souls went, good and bad - to sleep until the final resurrection. This is probably not quite right. The underworld is not talked about in a happy way - whne a man has lived a good number of years and is gathered to his people he is not mentioned as going to sheol! Sheol (and the underworld in general) are seen in a not-so-good light.

    Certainly the demons were referring to this kind of abyss - really a hell of sorts! Jesus suffered them to entere the swine - but they still ended up "in a lake". This lake here is not likely supposed to mean the abyss - after all Jesus' work was not done YET. But where will the demons end up someday?? The abyss! In a sense Jesus allowed them to continue in the earth as it was their lot to do - with the knowledge that the days were numbered - and we're shown this by the fact that they end up at the bottom of a lake! [​IMG]
     
  4. word_digger

    word_digger
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    As I understand the Bible, the 1st Heaven is the atmoshpere above the Earth, the Second Heaven is the Universe, and the Third Heaven is where God's throne is, high above the first two. Interestingly, the Bible also says there is a "Sea" between the 2nd and 3rd Heaven. Here is some info on that. (Article on Third Heaven) (Article on Structure of Things)

    These are two webpages on the general subject, although they don't go TOO DEEP into the subject topic. :D
     

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