What happened to the Creation vs. Evolution Forum?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by A_Christian, Aug 5, 2003.

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What happened to the Creation vs. Evolution Forum?

  1. We need access to the Creation vs. Evolution Forum

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  2. We really don't care---it's just a waste of time

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  1. A_Christian

    A_Christian
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    So, what's happened to the Creation vs. Evolution
    forum? I feel it is needed unless you want it
    talked about here. Or don't Baptists believe
    the Creation story either and wish the controversy
    would just go away? :mad:

    Do we want the Creation vs. Evolution Forum re-opened to posting etc.?
     
  2. Helen

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    Hi Christian,

    That is a very high maintenance forum, and it needs a rest as it was getting nasty. Most of the arguments I am aware of are already posted on its pages. I have told the webmaster that when I get back from New Zealand in late August, I will give a try at consolidating some of the posts and arguments on a Word file and then we can see if that is worth reposting or not. The creation/evolution forum is a lot different from the others as it has to do with the 'outside world' as much or more than any of the other forums where people depend upon Bible primarily and their own opinions, sadly, sometimes more often.

    I'll see if I can weed out a lot of the opinions and nastiness and get the thing condensed so that subjects can be looked up by those who are interested in them.

    I don't know if the forum will re-open or not then, but at least it will be more readable!
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

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  4. Johnv

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    Unfortunately, the Creation/Evolution thread continually goes down the same path as the KJVO and Calvinism/Arminianism debates. Much mudslinging, and little substance.

    I'm glad that Helen has been gracious enough to moderate it in the past, but it's a big assignment, and her desire to at this point place her priorities elsewhere are certainly understandable. Healthy discussion is the exception, not the rule, to the forum, and thus much moderation and editing is required.

    I myself can count the number of times my salvation has been questioned on at least one hand. That type of behavior is entirely uncalled for.
     
  5. BobRyan

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    The premise of the forum was excellent - Christians freely discussing their views of Evolution - assuming EVERYONE was a Bible believing Christian.

    The problem is - that in every attempt made to focus on the implication of evolution to Christianity and full acceptance of the Bible - the pro-evolution group constantly pulled the focus back to speculative-views-of-science-guesswork rather than what supposedly was a high value for ALL board members - the Christian faith in the context of evolution's claims.

    On the up side - I got a lot of valuable Science references from Helen and Steve Sawyer and deeply appreciate their participation, objectivity, research and concise logic.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. Paul of Eugene

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    There is another function for having the forum. That is to put the questions about evolution/creation into a single area where they can stand in their own catagory. If there is no evolution/creation forum, questions and statements about evolution/creation will begin to show up in all the other forums ANYWAY!

    And because it is one of those hot button topics, it can perhaps escalate the "temperature" of the discussion on that topic in a way that is unfortunate for those whose interest is only in that particular topic.

    We are going to have these discussions in our churches. Having the discussions in advance here is great preparation for how the discussion can go when it is "live" in our very own church body.
     
  7. Ben W

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    I think it needs to be carefully considered when certain forums get to people taking sides and slinging abuse at one another. Maybe there would be another format?
     
  8. Alcott

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    &lt; What happened to the Creation vs. Evolution Forum? &gt;

    It evolved bad mutations of too many warts, a carnivorous appetite with too few victims to consume, and an inability to stay grounded, but with wings too small to fly and shaky tales that made it too CE-sick to swim... so the species couldn't survive as part of the continuing BaptistBoard genus, so it became exstunk.
     
  9. BobRyan

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    #1. I enjoy the discussion - when the Evolutionists are honest enough to leave it in the arena of science - not pure speculation.

    But that is "rare" even on obvious points like entropy so without the ability to hold to a vestige of scientific integrity "even" on the easy questions - how could the more complex speculations ever be evaluated?

    With that in mind - all we really need is well informed saints in the church - that have access to solid creation science material that so clearly debunks the mythologies of evolutionism. There is no "need" to try to "convince" the devotees of evolutionism - beyond offering the blatant facts of science itself. They will "not" be convinced - because in fact the question is "NOT" science - but rather the humanistic philosophy of the evolutionist. Because of that - no scientific argument showing the failure of evolutionism's mythology will be acceptable.

    #2. So apart from a forum for airing the various ways that YEC has shown from science - to debunk the mythologies of evolutionism - what is the use of the Evolutionism-vs-creationist board? One "huge" benefit remains.

    What "if" evolutionists "could" be coaxed into admitting they are Christian, admitting the Bible is the Word of God and admitting that the Gospel is to be found in the "same" Bible as God's account of creation??

    Imagine "further" -- "what IF" we could then get the evolutionist to focus on "the Gospel" and the implications to it - once the humanistic mythologies of evolutionism are used to contradict-scripture. What if they had to "show" how they "work out" a harmony between the humanism of evolutionism and the Gospel?

    What if we could keep them focused on the gospel, the Bible, and the integrity of God's Word "in light of evolutionism" long enough to "have a discussion"?

    That was attempted "numerous" times on the C-vs-E board - with the result that evolutionist simply were uncomfortable discussing the Bible rather than the speculations of evolutionism.

    Would a NON-c-v-E board be a "better place" to get them to focus on the damage done to the Gospel by evolutionism's mythologies?

    That remains to be seen. I don't know what they would do in that case.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. Meatros

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    From what I saw, the CvE forum had a lot of inflammatory empty rhetoric, such as the above example post made by bobryan (good job of showing that [​IMG] ).

    As his example shows, there is a lot of venom in that forum (and I won't even pretend that it's unequal-it was on both sides) and we should all follow Christ's example and love one another-not spew forth venomous hatred.
     
  11. BobRyan

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    Fortunately the board - while closed - is still available for display.

    As Meatros' response shows - no matter how directly the call is made to "Show" integrity with God's word and the Gospel - the response is always "ouch you are exposing my flaw - and that is unkind - don't focus on the Bible, or the Gospel or the implications that evolutionism has for that - I don't want to speak about it and anyone that calls me on it -- is mean".

    However I would point out - that when you come to a Christian based message board and proclaim your faith in the doctrines of evolutionism - it is VERY reasonable to be expected to "Show your work" and resolve the obvious contradictions between God's Word and your faith in the doctrines of evolutionism. AND it is "very reasonable" to expect Bible believing Christians to "WANT" to talk about that point of inconsistency and to WANT you to offer some defense for your faith in the mythologies of evolutionism AS it pertains to God's Word.

    How could a Christian Message board context - do anything else? We who accept God's Word as it reads - have interest to discuss the obvious contradictions and show the obvious undermining of scripture that is "required" by the mythologies of evolutionism.

    Those embracing the compromise of Scripture with the myths of evolutionism - "must avoid" talking about what that comprimise does to scripture - but why come to a Christian message board in pursuit of such avoidance? It is simply "another inconsistency".

    As the C - vs - E board points out - even Atheist evolutionists "see" the compromised position of Christians that claim faith in evolutionism. (Richard Dawkins being one example posted).

    So even "here" on THIS "section" dedicated to discussing the doctrinal views of various groups - STILL an evolutionist will try to avoid discussing the scritpures when it comes to their cherished beliefs.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. Meatros

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    Bobryan, you realize that this isn't the place for a creation v. evolution debate-do you not? I have to assume you have at least that much intelligence. I'm wondering though why the inflammatory rhetoric? Why are you baiting us to argue evolution, when the forum got taken away??

    You can keep your nonsensical opinions to yourself, or wait until they reopen the forum before you start spewing your venomous hatred towards fellow Christians. I think you have a hypocritical attitude, Bob; you tell those of us who accept evolution that we *basically aren't Christians* (or that we are compromised, whatever your garbage rhetoric is), yet you aren't following Jesus's example yourself. What happened to "Love thy neighbor" bob? You posts clearly demonstrate a seething hatred (or at least a *sever* lack of respect) for evolutionist Christians, how can you justify this hatred/lack of respect and call yourself a Christian?

    I mean, hello Bob, that plank must be painful!

    I'm going to pray for you tonight Bobryan, I'm going to pray that you learn some compassion, love, and respect for your fellow man (and woman).
     
  13. BobRyan

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    I too will pray about this. I will pray that one day - a Christian will come to this board or one like it - willing to discuss the bible and their views on evolution. Willing to "show their work" rather than pretend to be offended that anyone might "see" a contradiction so glaring that even Atheists like Dawkins see it quite clearly.

    I think Christians should at least be as honest and objective as the Atheist evolutionists looking at their claims for evolutionism and seeing how obviously and clearly it contradicts Christianity and reason.

    Even Atheists see that under-cutting God's word at the very start - undermines all further argument in favor of His Word. And so do all Bible believing Christians that accept God's Word in the Genesis "account".

    "For IN Six days the Lord Made the Heavens and the Earth the Sea and All that is in them - and rested the seventh day".

    It is an easy concept to get. Even the Atheist evolutionist "gets it" - but they honestly and objectively - openly - "choose" evolution "instead".

    It remains - for even one - Christian evolutionist to "make their case" in this regard. And you would "think" that on a Christian message board - this is where they would be bounding with energy and enthusiasm to do just that.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. Johnv

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    I enjoy the discussion when Creation literalists leave it in the area of science, which is rare.

    Same could be said for a forum for airing the various ways that those espousing evolution have shown from science - to debunk the mythologies of creationism - what is the use of the Evolutionism-vs-creationist board.


    I'm a Christian, absolutely.

    I believe the Bible is the Word of God.

    The Gospel is found in the same Bible as the Creation accounts of Genesis 1 and 2.

    I believe in the integrity of God's word.

    Those who are not against the idea of evolution, who posted on the forum, discussed the Bible quite often.

    Would a non cve board be better? Interestingly, you seem to have bypassed the closure of the thread just fine. But to get to the point, a pro-evolution viewpoint doesn't do damage to the gospel. It does, however, do damage to a belief in a six da literal creation.

    Hasn't changed my viewpoint, and wouldn't. The only thing that would change my viewpoint is physical evidence. Unfortunately, or some may say fortunately, we don't have a forum to discuss that, and we will have to respect and accept the decision of the moderators.
     
  15. Johnv

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    The KKK asserts to the the same thing. When you "accept" it as it reads, one can espouse a belief in slavery, polygamy, and the killing of those practicing witchery, to name a few.

    I prefer to do study on the Word, and, rather than accept it as it reads, accept the message as the writers, inspired by God, intended for it to be.
     
  16. Johnv

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    I made my case several times. Just because my case was summarily dismissed by those in disagreement, it does not change the fact that my case was made.
     
  17. BobRyan

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    RAther - instead of actually seeing our Christian evolutionist breatheren making a case for the integrity of the Bible, exegetically "showing" how the myths of evolutionism leave the Gospel in tact - they always talk "About" efforts to that effect that may be exerted some day - or that might have slipped in at some unknown point in time without actually "doing it".

    By contrast on THIS area of the message board - people "actually" post their views and reference the Bible proofs of why they hold that view.

    Yet even here in this forum - when evolutionists are challenged to take a Bible/Gospel centgered approach and "show" the Bible case for RETAINING the truths of the Gospel while clinging to the myths of evolutionism - we still have yet to see "one example" of anyone showing an interest or some enthusiasm in even making the case for it.

    Others on the C vs E board outright denied it saying that exegesis was the last thing they wanted to engage in.

    It is not a case on this board of everyone "Agreeing" - it is more the obvious case that the Evolutionist-oriented group are abandoning exegesis altogether ALONG with the consisten view of faith in the Gospel itself where it APPEALS to the very DETAILS of Genesis that evolution so "needs" to delete.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. LadyEagle

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    I don't miss it because I never visited it.

    I believe in the literal six day creation in Genesis 1 and that's that. God said it, I believe it, and that's that.

    I've heard all the same old arguments and rhetoric the evolutionists and other Darwin and Carl Sagen worshippers have espoused for decades, so if they wanna believe their great great great etc. granddaddy was an ape or an amoeba, so be it.

    OTOH, some apes are smarter than some people I know... :eek: [​IMG]
     
  19. BobRyan

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    All true SheEagle.

    However - the part I find shocking is that you can "Drag a Christian discussion" on the Bible out of an evolutionist EVEN a Christian Evolutionist.

    They will come to a Christian message board like this one - where the PRE-REQ to posting your views on evolutionism is that you MUST be a Christian and then BLINDLY refuse to discuss the obvious devstation your compromised view does to the Gospel. A point that EVEN Atheists like Dawkins SEES - not just other Bible believing Christians.,

    It's like the Evolutionist-Christian KNOWS they are compromised and must avoid the entire discussion at all costs.

    So what you see "instead" is the posts above where they are "hurt if you ask the question".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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