What Happened To The Providence Of God?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Mar 3, 2015.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I was following the post Did Judas Resist Grace debate which was balanced on the woulda, coulda, shoulda, doctrine IMHO! Lets talk about the Providence Of All Mighty God. I agreed with the comments from Willis and Old Regular but don't we need to look at the bigger picture?

    Jesus Christ as man and Mediator, he could have prayed to his Father for, and have had, more than twelve legions of angels, which would soon have rescued him: but this was not to be; power was given to Pilate from heaven against him; not for any evil he himself had committed, or merely to gratify the envy and malice of the Jews, but for the salvation of God's elect, and for the glorifying of the divine perfections... John Gill

    Was not God in control of everything?... Was this not his plan?

    John 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?

    11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin... Was Jesus talking about Judas?... Comments... Brother Glen
     
    #1 tyndale1946, Mar 3, 2015
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  2. Van

    Van
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    Pilate was acting out of duty, it was his job. But the Jews who schemed and misrepresented Jesus to the Roman Authority were guilty of greater sin.

    Since it was God's plan for Jesus to go to the cross as the Lamb of God, and no plan of God can be thwarted, God was in control of the whole betrayal, series of trials, scourging and crucifixion of Christ. Much of the plan was foretold in scripture, such as Isaiah 53.
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular
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    Well presented. Scripture confirms the guilt of the Jews through the preaching of the Apostle Peter:

    Acts 2:22-24
    22. Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
    23. Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
    24. Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.


    As shown in the above Scripture it was the purpose of God that the Jews crucify their Messiah, Jesus, whom we call the Christ {Anointed or Messiah}. The promise of the Redeemer and His suffering was first made in Genesis 3:15. All of the Old Testament, in my opinion, point to the Cross. That the Jews would be instrumental in the Crucifixion was first made known {As far as I am aware.} to the Prophet Isaiah in His vision of God:

    Isaiah 6:8-10
    8. Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
    9. And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
    10. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.


    Jesus Christ makes reference to this prophecy recorded by Isaiah in Matthew 13 after He gave the parable of the sower:

    Matthew 13:9-17
    9. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
    10. And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
    11. He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
    12. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
    13. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
    14. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
    15. For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

    16. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
    17. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


    The Apostle Paul makes reference to this same prophecy after preaching to the Jews in Rome.

    Acts 28:23-31
    23. And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
    24. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
    25. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
    26. Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
    27. For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

    28. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
    29. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
    30. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
    31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.


    The Apostle Paul seems a little disgusted with his kinsman. But I don't believe that is the first time. Though the Apostle Paul is preaching the Kingdom of God, the same Gospel that Jesus Christ preached, to both Jew and Gentile there are some "strange folks" who argue that Paul preached a different Gospel to the Gentiles; heretics I call them, and Paul says they are accursed [Galatians 1:9}.

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  4. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I agree... The plan was set by holy counsel in the halls of eternity by the triune Godhead before creation... It was carried out as the Godhead planned it.

    Isaiah 46

    9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

    10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

    11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

    12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:

    13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory... Brother Glen
     
    #4 tyndale1946, Mar 4, 2015
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  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular
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    It would be good if everyone would let God be God.

    **************
     
  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    AMEN to that... My Brother!... Brother Glen
     
  7. convicted1

    convicted1
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    I thought of this verse....

    Zechariah 13:6 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

    6 And [one] hath said unto him, `What [are] these wounds in thy hands?' And he hath said, `Because I was smitten [at] home by my lovers.'

    God's hand was all over Jesus' betrayal at the hands of Judas.

    Isaiah 53:10 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

    10 And Jehovah hath delighted to bruise him, He hath made him sick, If his soul doth make an offering for guilt, He seeth seed -- he prolongeth days, And the pleasure of Jehovah in his hand doth prosper.
     
  8. convicted1

    convicted1
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    :thumbs::applause::thumbs::thumbsup:


    It's always sweet to find an accord....
     

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