What happened to the resurrected FLESHLY Body of Christ?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    You that deny the Physical body of Jesus Christ was resurrected, handled and asserted to be "flesh" and not "spirit" and which the apostles saw with their own yes ascend into heaven and which Paul says "the man" Jesus Christ is still in heaven - tell us what happened to that physical resurrected body??

    Tell us how death and sin are not victorious if that body perished someway?
     
  2. DHK

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    Moriah won't be able to tell you, but perhaps Seve can.
     
  3. The Biblicist

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    I don't see how Seve can avoid the same consequence as he has exactly the same mindset.
     
  4. Seve

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    Again, NOBODY is denying that Christ did not have a PHYSICAL BODY after the resurrection.... That's just based on your strawman's argument to create fallacy.

    Try to debate my position.... not your own made up story and distorted view of where I stand.

     
    #4 Seve, Aug 24, 2012
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  5. percho

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    Amen; -----Relative to the kingdom of God. ----- Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, Born again.
    That included, guess who?

    And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

    Acts 13:30,33 But God raised him from the dead: God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
     
  6. The Biblicist

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    You simply do not understand the consequences of your own position. Your next quotation makes it clear you neither understand the scriptures or the consequences of your own position.

    884600Try to debate my position.... not your own made up story and distorted view of where I stand.[/QUOTE]

    Psalm 110:1 has completely refuted your whole christology. You state your own position by the bold letters in your quotation by which you embrace Moriah's position that says:


    "Christ was NOT in the FLESH after his resurrection but Glorified Body"

    1. The body placed in the tomb did not see corruption.

    2. The cloth used to wrap his body was found empty of his body

    3. He claimed the body after his resurrection was FLESH:

    Lu 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    4. This body contained the wounds in his feet and hands and side and so it was his pre-burial body raised from the dead.

    5. This is the body they beheld for 40 days - Acts 1:1-8

    6. The angels said that "THIS SAME JESUS" which they beheld ascend into heaven would come again just like they had "seen" him go away - Acts 1:11

    7. Paul tells Timothy that "THE MAN" Jesus is in heaven as their mediator right now - 1 Tim. 2:5

    8. However, you are right about one thing! That resurrected body of flesh was glorified - meaning:

    1. Incorruptible
    2. Power
    3. Honorable
    4. Immortal


    9. If Christ's body in the grave was not raised and glorified then death has the victory and the atonement is in vain - 1 Cor. 15:13-19

    10. Those who deny the body of flesh was not raised and glorified are "false witnesses" of Christ - 1 Cor. 15:15

    11. The resurrected body of FLESH is the "firstfruits" of the resurrection of all to come.

    12. The term "raised" and "resurrection" cannot have any sane application to anything other than the body that went down into the ground.
     
  7. Seve

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    Dear Readers,

    Perhaps, Biblicist is still ignorant of the fact that the Son of God already existed and have physical body even during the time of old.... based on the Scripture. In fact, the Lord also have hands.... :laugh:

    Look and read...

    Isaiah 45
    11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

    12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

    Only willingly ignorant always stumble to this Biblical Truth even after been told, several times.

    :BangHead:
     
    #7 Seve, Aug 25, 2012
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  8. The Biblicist

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    I suppose he had "feathers" and "wings" too?

    Ps 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

    Ps 17:8 ¶ Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings,

    Ps 61:4 I will abide in thy tabernacle for ever: I will trust in the covert of thy wings. Selah.


    I suppose his body is so large that heaven is his throne and the earth is his footstool too? huh?

    Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?


    You are simply ignorant of metaphorical language.
     
    #8 The Biblicist, Aug 25, 2012
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  9. The Biblicist

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    The New Testament says that Jesus is the "image" of the "INVISIBLE" God:

    Col. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    This is the same "image" we are created in (Gen. 1:26).

    Hence, neither our bodies or the body provided in the incarnation for Christ provide that image because His image is "INVISIBLE" whereas our bodies are very visible.

    That image has to do with the holiness and righteousness of God which image is renewed in us by new birth:

    Col. 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

    This "invisible" image also refers to the reasoning power in addition to a moral image.

    Neither our physical body or the physical body of Christ is the "invisible" image of God.


     
  10. Seve

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    Perhaps, Biblicist lack of brain capacity to handle the Truth is blurring his reading comprehesion.

    Look and Read...

    1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

    If the Lord became the 2nd man from heaven.... after Adam of the earth..... then, there's no reason not to believe that the Son physically existed in the old testament.... .... AND HAD PHYSICAL BODY LIKE US (simile) ...... as I have been asserting since the beginning.

    Only willingly ignorant like Biblicist always stumble to this Biblical Truth.

    :BangHead: ........ :laugh:
     
    #10 Seve, Aug 25, 2012
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  11. The Biblicist

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    Again, Seve is better at personal insults than he is at theological or Biblical interpetation.

    The text does NOT say he is the second "man" from heaven as his humanity did not come from heaven but from the womb of Mary. He is the Lord from heaven who became a man and dwelt among us.

    He is called the "second" man with respect to Adam who was the first man:

    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
    46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


    The order demands that Christ became a man "AFTERWARD" rather than before Adam was created and thus refers to the incarnation rather than some fictional idea of a human Christ before the creation of the world.
     
    #11 The Biblicist, Aug 25, 2012
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  12. Seve

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    Dear Readers,

    Notice how Biblicist will do anything to distort and twist the context of the text…. perhaps, to continue to deceive you. His style of convoluting the text to create fallacy of argument is well noted. What an audacity, isn’t it?

    Clearly, the text above is documenting us that the Lord was the "second man" from heaven (period)…. but the Lord was NOT the last Adam (as Biblicist assume him to be) who was MADE a quickening spirit (note: the Lord is the source of quickening spirit)..... by being created in the image and likeness of God, spiritually.... after they (A&E) have committed their "origianl sin".

    The above should debunk your (Biblicist) convoluted religious assumption. However, I am not sure why you (Biblicist) like to continue demonstrating to us your lack of spiritual understanding. It only exposes your weaknesses.


    Again, only willingly ignorant always stumble to this Biblical Truth.
     
    #12 Seve, Aug 25, 2012
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  13. The Biblicist

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    The normal personal attack demonstrating a lack of substance


    Seve does the very same thing with this text as he does with Psalms 110:1. He simply changes the text to make it fit his theology.
    Seve is a person who does not let God's Word stand in the way of his false doctrines. He simply changes the Word of God to suit himself.

    This text does NOT say that Christ is "the second man from heaven" but "the second man is the LORD from heaven". It is the Lord from heaven who came "afterward" and became the "second Adam" through the incarnation.

    The use of "second" has already been contextually established as a contrast between the "first" which is Adam and then "AFTERWARD" the "second" which refers to the incarnation as the incarnation follows the "first" Adam. Hence, "first" and "second" refer to the CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER between Adam and Christ as seen by the contrast of "first" versus "Last."

    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
    46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


    Paul explicitly denies that Christ as the second man preceded Adam but came "AFTERWARD." It is just that simple and that clear.

    Now the phrase "is the Lord from heaven" defines who it is that came to earth and became a "man" through the incarnation that followed the "second Adam." The fact he is said to have not come first but came "afterward" demands that the incarnation is how The Lord from heaven became the "second Adam."

    The terms "first" and "second" are chronological terms as is "first" versus "last" showing that Christ chronologically came "AFTERWARDS" rather than BEFORE the first Adam. It is the "Lord" that came from heaven to BECOME the Second Adam.

    The "second man" IS "the Lord" and it is "the Lord" which came "from heaven" to become the "last" Adam through the incarnation. Absolute proof this refers to the incarnation is the denial that the spiritual came first:

    46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    The term "afterward" defines the time when the "spiritual" man occurred in time relationship to the appearance of the "first" man Adam.
     
    #13 The Biblicist, Aug 25, 2012
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  14. The Biblicist

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    If Christ came as a "man" from heaven instead of coming as "the Lord from heaven" to become man, then Paul would not have said the spiritual was not first but the earthly was first:

    46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


    I really don't see how anyone can deny that Paul uses the term "second" in this context in any other way than in contrast to "first" which describes Adam in the garden. Adam chronologically preceded Christ in the role of a representative man. He is described as "Adam" in his redemptive representative capacity just as the first Adam acted in a representative capacity for all mankind. This representative capacity began with the incarnation and taking upon himself the nature of man. This is precisely what John 1:14 demands - he BECAME man by tabernacling in the flesh among men.
     
    #14 The Biblicist, Aug 25, 2012
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  15. Yeshua1

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    He is hard to follow...

    just WHO does he claim jesus was/is than?
     
  16. The Biblicist

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    He claims that Jesus was the first created being before the creation of the world who was created to be the VISIBLE God called JHVH and no other Being is properly called JHVH but Christ. Thus he was created as a visible glorified man before Genesis 1:1. This is why he is arguing that JHVH "Lord" was the "first man" that came from heaven. He denies this refers to the incarnation but rather this occured prior to the incarnation and is seen in the theophanies in the Old Testament. This is why he interprets the anthromorphic langauge as literal decriptions of JHVH because He believes JHVH is a LITERAL man but only glorified.
     
    #16 The Biblicist, Aug 25, 2012
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  17. Seve

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    WRONG BIBLICIST. Again, why do you continue demonstrating to us your lack od wisdom and spiritual undertanding? Is this comes natural to you?

    For your continued education....

    Adam was just a NATURAL living soul to begin with and sinned BEFORE he was redeemed by the Lord by being created in the image and likeness of God.... or born again with a quickening spirit.

    In the day Adam and his generations were created in the image and likeness of God (Gen. 5:1), both A&E already committed their first sins. This actual event of creation took place after man began calling upon the name of the Lord (Gen. 4:26).

    Genesis 5
    3 This [is] the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
    4 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
    5 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:


    1 Corinthians 15
    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
    46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
     
    #17 Seve, Aug 25, 2012
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  18. percho

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    The first man Adam was made a living soul;
    Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
    Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same;

    Jesus born of the virgin Mary was a flesh and blood, living soul just as God had created the first man Adam.

    That is how death came to him. The life, of him is the blood of him.
    Lev. 17:14 For the life (soul, nephesh ) of all flesh [is] the blood thereof:

    1 Cor. 15 concerns the resurrection. The resurrection of what? The resurrection of a person. A once living soul that died. Therefore it is the resurrection of a soul and with what body will that soul will be raised.

    Jesus, born of Mary a living soul died. Just as dead as the first man Adam was dead the day he died.
    Dying he did surely die.

    The resurrection of Jesus. From whence was he raised?
    He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that his soul was not left in hell (Hades), neither his flesh did see corruption. Acts 2:31

    The soul, Jesus was resurrected from Hades (abode of the dead) and his flesh was resurrected from the tomb of Joseph and had not seen corruption. His flesh was raised in a spiritual state not subject anymore to corruption and without blood which had contained the life (soulish) breath-belonged-of
    ψυχικόν. Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, [now] no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

    To this date there has been only one person born of woman who has experienced this resurrection.

    The last Adam. The last Adam a quickening spirit. When and how?

    And if Christ be not raised, your faith vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17 There has been only one to this date.

    This verse is about Jesus the Christ before and after his resurrection.

    Howbeit that not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural (Breath belonged of); and afterward (after the resurrection) that which is spiritual.
    The first man (Jesus) of the earth, earthy: the second man (Jesus) the Lord from heaven.

    Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. V36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    John 5:21 For as the Father (God) raises up the dead, and quickeneth
    Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) Gal 1:1
    John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

    No longer is Jesus, breath belonged of, Father into thy hands I commend my spirit. He is now quickening Spirit.
     
  19. Yeshua1

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    Sort of like a JW view of jesus being the first created being, a"little god?"
     
  20. The Biblicist

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    However, such passages as Isaiah 44:6 and Psalms 110:1 repudiates his theory that the name JHVH is used only of Christ. In Psalm 110:1 the Son of David (Christ) is called "Adonai" ("Lord") who is to sit at the right hand of YHVH who sits on the throne. This prophecy about where he is to be seated was fulfilled at ascension according to Peter in Acts 2.

    I Corinthians 15:44-46 repudiates his theory that Christ came as a "man" from heaven before the incarnation. Rather it is the "Lord" who came from heaven to become the "Second" Adam through the incarnation. The term "Adam" applied to Christ refers to his Redemptive representative mission through taking upon himself the body prepared by YHVH Father (Heb. 10:5-8) at the incarnation (Jn. 1:14).

    The fact that Paul denies the "spiritual" was "first" totally repudiates that Christ existed as the spiritual man in heaven before Adam in the garden but Paul says he came "AFTERWARD" or after Adam. This completely repudiates his whole view of Christology.
     

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