What happens to those who never hear abut Christ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jordan Kurecki, Oct 11, 2014.

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  1. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    Ever wondered about people who die and never hear the gospel? What happens to them?
    Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    Notice here that God and his power are CLEARLY SEEN,BEING UNDERSTOOD, by the things that are made (Creation).

    So God and his existence are clearly seen by looking at creation, for example the complexity of life, the vastness of the universe, the amazing laws of nature, these all point to an omnipotent God in the same way a 2014 Camaro point to that manufacturer.

    This is called General Revelation, and it is the first revelation God gives to a man.

    Everyone knows this at some point, the passage say that when they knew God they glorified him not as God, so they rejected God, usually because of the responsibility to him that this would bring, it's easier to deny God than to be responsible to him for out actions, because of this denial they end up in a downward spiral in all sorts of wicked depraved sins, and they usually end up in false religions as well, the passage talks about exchanging the truth of God into a lie, basically people create their own concept of God that does not exist, Pantheism and Polytheism are a good example of this.

    Another revelation of God is the conscience:
    Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

    Here it talks about the Law, mainly referring to the Ten Commandments, basically everyone knows deep down inside, that lying, murder, stealing, etc are wrong, and this is written on man's heart in his conscience.
    The point i am making is if a person refuses to accept the revelation of Creation, and the Revelation of Conscience, then God is not obligated to give the revelation of Christ, this is completely just and fair.If a person is not willing to learn simply addition and subtraction then it is not unjust for the teacher to be unwilling to teach him calculus.

    God sends missionaries when he knows there are people who will be receptive.he is all knowing and knows who will accept his gift of eternal life.
    People do not deserve to go to heaven because of sin, it is completely just for God to send anyone to hell,without them ever hearing the gospel, because all have sinned and chosen to do wrong in life. this includes people in foreign lands, When God allows sinners to have a chance to hear the gospel, that is called grace, because they do not deserve the chance, But I do believe that if there is anyone who would be willing to get saved, God will in fact allow them to hear the message somehow, the bible says that God is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.", the bible also says that he wills all men to come the knowledge of the truth and wills all men to be saved. Jesus also said that if he be lifted up (referring to the cross) that he will draw all men to himself; this shows that to some degree, God draws all men to Christ, to the degree that a person is willing to let God draw him, he will draw them.

    Consider this passage from the bible:
    Act 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
    Act 8:27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
    Act 8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
    Act 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
    Act 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
    Act 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
    Act 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
    Act 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
    Act 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
    Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
    Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
    Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
    Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

    Notice here is Eunuch reading the old testament scripture who is clearly searching for the truth, so God sends him somebody to explain to him about Jesus.
    Consider another example:
    Act 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
    Act 16:10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
    Hope this helps you to understand.
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon
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    Jordan, when Jesus said He would draw all to Himself. It means Gentiles as well as Jews. Not every single person who has and shall live. When he said this many were already in perdition.

    No one is "willing to be saved" Jordan. All are in opposition to Christ and the Gospel in the natural. No one is "receptive" to Christ. The Lord has to plow the heart and make it tender. People can't do it under their own power.

    "Willing to let God draw him" is an absurdity. God draws to completion. There is no tug and then the person decides not to. See John 6 --especially verses 37,39,43 and 65 for further help.

    Some passages to dwell on :

    Isaiah 65:1 (it's reworked in Ro. 10:20)

    "I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me."

    Isaiah 53:1 :

    "Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"

    Psalm 65:4 :

    "Blessed are those you choose and bring near to live in your courts!" [You see that he causes them to come to Him.]
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    No one can ever prove that one single person had died without hearing the gospel.


    Faith come be hearing had hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17


    No gospel no faith.
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon
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    No one can prove that the gospel has been heard by every single person past, present and future.

    The Lord, in His sovereign disposition of things has seen fit to let a number of nations go their own way --surely that means those citizens have never heard. He has hidden the gospel from multitudes of folks down through the ages --they have never heard.

    I agree with that verse, but what does it have to do with your claim?

    Yes, but what does that have to do with your opening claim?
     
  5. Revmitchell

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    Ok? :confused:

    Why does that means that?
     
  6. Rippon

    Rippon
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    Run that past me again reworded.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    Its pretty clear. Nothing wrong with the wording. Could it be that you are obfuscating?
     
  8. Yeshua1

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    EVERY sinner that Jesus died in the place of will receive the message and receive Him while they are alive, as God will do wht is required to make sure somehow/some way they get it!
     
  9. Rippon

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    "Why does that means that?" That "question" is an example of poor, unintelligible English RM.
     
  10. Rippon

    Rippon
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    If there are any objections, clearly articulate what they are.
     
  11. Deacon

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    Nice post Jordan.

    Everyone hasn't heard the gospel

    I've heard it said that God judges people according the light given to them.

    As you pointed out, the opening chapters of Romans tell us that people turn away from that light and choose darkness.
    We don't even measure up to our own standards.

    Without the gospel and without those who proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ, there is no hope for salvation.

    God's grace through Christ's work on the cross is the power of salvation.

    Rob
     
  12. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
     
  13. Rippon

    Rippon
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    Things To Think About

    The sins of each and every person, past, present and future have not, and will not be propitiated. If you think that, then every single person is in glory or glory-bound. John was emphasizing that Christ propitiatory sacrifice was not only for those among Hebrews, but Gentiles too.

    See John 11:51,52 :

    "He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for that nation, and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one."

    I emphasized some words for you. This is the same author who p[enned 1 John 2:2.

    Remember that all blessings that the ones benefiting from Christ's propitiation are unique to them alone. Their sins are forgiven. They have an advocate. They alone are comforted while others remain under the wrath of God.
     
  14. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    The context of the passage deals with nothing concerning Jews and Gentiles.

    You are pulling that out of thin air to defend your doctrine of Calvinism.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Who does God love? the world.

    1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    Time for the scripture twisting to come now, typically you will now come and redefine world, redefine all men to be mean all elect, and any to any elect.
     
  15. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    What you have proven is that God does not need to reveal the gospel to all men without exception, BECAUSE what God has revealed to them is entirely sufficient to reveal their sinfulness. So no man is sent to hell for refusing the gospel, but because of sinning against the light which they were given.

    God is not obligated to send the gospel to every man nor obligated to save anyone. Such an obligation denies the very meaning of grace.

    God can send the gospel to whom He chooses among fallen god resisting and god hating men, and simply permit the rest to freely choose to go on in their god hating resisting ways as their own resistance to the light of creation and conscience is fully sufficient to judge them justly.

    Here is what most do not get. Election is "UNTO" salvation and therefore it presumes the fall has already occurred and man is already in a state of enmity with God and justly condemned already. Hence, nothing but their own enmity and resistance keeps them from receiving the light given and for the elect nothing but the grace of God can be credited for their salvation. Either way God is glorified. He is glorified in the just condemnation of the lost and he is glorified in the salvation of the elect by pure undeserved grace.
     
  16. Rippon

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    I see you have conveniently ignored John's words in John 11.

    Listen, John was an apostle to the Jews --Gal. 2:9.

    He writes to those who have already heard God's Word --Hebrews. Look at 1 John 2:7 :"Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard." God's Word was to the Jews first.

    Read 1 John 2:19 :"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." He's warning about false teachers here going away from us --obviously speaking of fellow Jews.

    Why does John make the contrast between "us" and "the world" in his letters? Answer? To make it plain that the ones he writes to were Jews themselves.

    You are pulling that out of thin air to defend your doctrine of Calvinism.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    I won't deal with the other passages you listed until you understand the points I have made above.
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    My brain damaged sister and my infant son never heard the gospel....both are dead. Now where are they?
     
  18. webdog

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    Spiritually dead people need the gospel. They were not spiritually dead.
     
  19. webdog

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    Double post.
     
  20. Aaron

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    Sodom and Gomorrah were not sent any prophets. Neither Tyre nor Sidon.
     
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