What if the Liberals Win in November?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by carpro, Oct 12, 2006.

  1. carpro

    carpro
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    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200610/POL20061012c.html

    What if the Liberals Win in November?

    By Susan Jones
    CNSNews.com Senior Editor
    October 12, 2006

    (CNSNews.com) - A conservative advocacy group is not only asking the "what if" question, it's answering it - in an email message that urges conservatives to get out and vote in November.
    The midterm elections are "very important," the American Family Association says. "As bad as things are, they will be infinitely worse if the liberals win."
    The AFA offers the following list (verbatim) of what conservatives can expect if Democrats regain control of Congress:
    -- Amnesty for 12,000,000 illegal immigrants.
    -- A push to make homosexual marriage and polygamy legal in all 50 states.
    -- Only liberal judges will be appointed. They will create laws to implement the social agenda liberals cannot get passed through the legislative process.
    -- Liberals will make the killing of the unborn more difficult to stop.
    -- Liberals will continue to try to rid our society of Christian influence, including any reference to God in our Pledge and on our currency.
    -- A return to the "Fairness Doctrine" in broadcasting where opposing views must be given equal time. Every conservative talk show host will be forced to give a liberal equal time on every issue. The purpose of this rule will be to shut down conservative talk shows.
    -- An increase in taxes to push new social programs.
    -- Passing a new "hate crimes" law making it illegal to refer to homosexuality in a negative manner.
    -- Liberals will give terrorists from other countries who try to kill Americans the same rights American citizens enjoy under our constitution.
    --We will withdraw from Iraq, sending the message to the terrorists that if they will just be patient they can win and bring their terrorist acts to the U.S.
     
  2. Baptist Believer

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    "Infinitely worse"? Hmm... I guess that means the sun will go nova, nuclear weapons will be detonated across the U.S., and God will not intervene because the dreaded "liberals" (apparently, a code word for Democrats) have gained seats in the House and Senate.

    Apparently, the AFA believes that no Democrats would oppose these actions.

    While I agree that the coming election is very important (and I'm generally voting Republican), this kind of fear rhetoric is deplorable.
     
  3. Daisy

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    Strawman scare tactics. :eek: Whoohoo.
     
  4. carpro

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    Did it frighten you?
     
  5. Baptist Believer

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    Of course not. As a follower of Jesus, I don't have live in fear or demonize those who believe differently from me.

    Psalm 2:1-6
    Why are the nations in an uproar
    And the peoples devising a vain thing?
    The kings of the earth take their stand
    And the rulers take counsel together
    Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,
    "Let us tear their fetters apart
    And cast away their cords from us!"
    He who sits in the heavens laughs,
    The Lord scoffs at them.
    Then He will speak to them in His anger
    And terrify them in His fury, saying,
    "But as for Me, I have installed My King
    Upon Zion, My holy mountain.


    Psalm 121
    I will lift up my eyes to the mountains;
    From where shall my help come?
    NO!
    My help comes from the LORD,
    Who made heaven and earth.
    Amen!
    He will not allow your foot to slip;
    He who keeps you will not slumber.
    Behold, He who keeps Israel
    Will neither slumber nor sleep.
    The LORD is your keeper;
    The LORD is your shade on your right hand.
    The sun will not smite you by day,
    Nor the moon by night.
    The LORD will protect you from all evil;
    He will keep your soul.
    The LORD will guard your going out and your coming in
    From this time forth and forever.
     
  6. JamieinNH

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    :sleeping_2:

    This election is in full swing I see....


    Jamie


     
  7. carpro

    carpro
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    Originally Posted by Baptist Believer

    While I agree that the coming election is very important (and I'm generally voting Republican), this kind of fear rhetoric is deplorable.

    Originally Posted by carpro
    Did it frighten you?


    Who do you think it might frighten?
     
  8. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
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    Those who don't have enough faith or perspective to realize that God is watching out for his people, telling the truth is more important that agendas, that other people are ultimately not our enemies, and those who don't yet understand that our calling in Christ gives us the responsibility to embody the Kingdom of God in the midst of the earthly kingdoms that are passing away.
     
  9. carpro

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    Your concern for others is admirable.

    There was a lot of truth in that list and nothing at all to "fear" that I could see.

    Is the truth what you would really prefer to protect them from even if it does frighten them a little?
     
  10. Baptist Believer

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    So claiming that if "the liberals" (apparently the Democrats) win seats, life in the United State will be "infinitely worse" meets your definition of "a lot of truth" and does not reek of fear-peddling?

    Furthermore, the article seems to think that individual Democrats (the alleged "liberals") will uniformly vote in solidarity with the most extreme elements of the Democratic party, passing wildly unpopular legislation, without any concern that they will be answerable to the voters in future elections.

    That reeks of fear-mongering, because their projected scenario would be complete political suicide for the Democratic Party.

    I am not afraid of truth, no matter what you allege. That's why I responded analytically to what is likely a popular view around here. Both Democrat and Republican extremists are using dishonesty and fear tactics to try to sway undecided voters. Followers of Jesus must have the courage to think critically about the messages they receive and vote their conscience.
     
  11. Ralph III

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    I think most of what was listed in the OP is of common knowledge. Thus I do feel if the Democrats get control it will be significantly detrimental to America. In regards to security, with traditional Christian aspects, and with abortion etc.

    The Republicans are not so great and nobody argues that, however the Democratic party today is out of control. One only has to look at the Leadership and radical far left proponents along with supporters. Not to mention the ostracizing of moderate-type Democrats such as Liberman or Zell Miller of Georgia etc.

    In regards to your remark that the Democrats won't vote in uniformity with "wildly unpopular legislation". They just voted in virtual unanimity on shooting down legislation, which would have given parental-notification on abortion. The Democrats voted 85% against the bill, with Republicans voting 93% for the bill. This pretty much says it all and is consistant.

    So not only does the Democratic Party "Proudly" stand by the right to abortion and see it as a "Liberty", as their platform states; They also don't feel you as a parent have the right to know if your child is in that dire predicament!


    Yes you are correct!" I don't think Jesus would support the slaughter of innocent children! Nor a Party that "Proudly" proclaims that as a "Liberty" and whom fights any legislartion that seeks to stop or change it!

    These things as they say themselves. :( :mad::tonofbricks:


    In Christ,
     
    #11 Ralph III, Oct 12, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2006
  12. Magnetic Poles

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    Once again the so-called Rev. Donald Wildmon builds strawmen to attack. The AFA continues to prove it's extremism and muddying the water.
     
  13. carpro

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    That's it? That's the best you can do?

    There is a list of ten items and you pick one that's not even there?

    "Infinitely worse" is that organization's overall opinion. Surely most of the people that you are concerned about would know that. But maybe not.

    To back up their claim, they listed 10 actions they believe democrats would take. Which ones of those are you saying are "fear" mongering. More than that , which ones on that list do you believe are not true?

    I have made no allegations at all to you or about you.

    I'm simply trying to understand why a simple list of predictions of what will take place is "fear" mongering and who it is you wish to protect from themselves.
     
  14. carpro

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    Which ones on their list of ten items do you believe are not true, that they will not try to do if given the opportunity?
     
  15. Magnetic Poles

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    Just who are these monolithic "liberals" who frighten Wildmon so?

    Let look at the list:

    -- Amnesty for 12,000,000 illegal immigrants.
    Don't see that being pushed. We do need imigration reform and secure borders. We also need guest workers. What is the answer? I don't think I have heard any credible politician endorse full amnesty.
    -- A push to make homosexual marriage and polygamy legal in all 50 states.
    Big time straw person. Homosexual marriage is a losing cause in today's political atmosphere, and who the heck have you heard endorsing polygamy.
    -- Only liberal judges will be appointed. They will create laws to implement the social agenda liberals cannot get passed through the legislative process.
    Really? Just like the neocons and theocons are doing now, you mean?
    -- Liberals will make the killing of the unborn more difficult to stop.
    Abortion rights are law. Your view is the minority. I thought you were one for "majority rule".
    -- Liberals will continue to try to rid our society of Christian influence, including any reference to God in our Pledge and on our currency.
    Separation of Church & State is a bedrock principle of our secular republic. Get over it. Does mixing God & mammon really change anything?
    -- A return to the "Fairness Doctrine" in broadcasting where opposing views must be given equal time. Every conservative talk show host will be forced to give a liberal equal time on every issue. The purpose of this rule will be to shut down conservative talk shows.
    So equal time is now considered wrong? I guess this shows Wildmon knows that there are far more conservatives on talk radio than libs.
    -- An increase in taxes to push new social programs.
    What programs & taxes have been proposed?
    -- Passing a new "hate crimes" law making it illegal to refer to homosexuality in a negative manner.
    Straw, straw, straw. Merely speaking one's opinion is protected speech.
    -- Liberals will give terrorists from other countries who try to kill Americans the same rights American citizens enjoy under our constitution.
    The constitution protects everyone in US jurisdiction, at least in principle. What about evidence and due process does Wildmon dislike? Shouldn't we have strong evidence to imprison someone rather than just rounding up on the word of someone else?
    --We will withdraw from Iraq, sending the message to the terrorists that if they will just be patient they can win and bring their terrorist acts to the U.S.
    Hmm...why does sticking with a failed policy seem virtuous? Sounds like what I used to hear that went like this . . ."If we withdraw from Vietnam, we'll be fighting the Red Chinese in Los Angeles. Better to fight the commies in VietNam than here."
     
  16. Jack Matthews

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    Scare tactics. Look at that list. Half of that stuff is going to happen regardless of who is in there. Think Bush is going to leave office without giving amnesty to 12 million illegals?

    How could the killing of the unborn be more difficult to stop? It is already happening in record numbers under the Bush administration and the Republican congress. They don't care.

    What's wrong with the fairness doctrine in broadcasting?

    Americans paid more in taxes this past year than any other year in history, with the Republicans in control of both houses and Bush in the White House.

    What's wrong with hate crimes legislation? Are you in favor of hate? Does the Bible teach you to hate?

    The line about liberals giving terrorists the same rights as American citizens under the constitution is just a bunch of baloney. The fact of the matter is that some conservatives in power now want to take away our civil rights in order to be able to prosecute anyone they point a finger at and call a terrorist, including American citizens they don't like. What's the point of fighting a war on terror if we are going to take away our civil rights in the process?

    There were no terrorist organizations operating against the US in Iraq when we attacked. Al Qaida was not there, Hamas was not there, Hezbollah was not there. Leaving Iraq will not send any worse of a message than attacking it did. All we did by going in was cause widespread instability in the Middle East in the countries that were supportive of the US. Leaving Iraq might help to undo at least some of that damage. If countries like Pakistan, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Saudi Arabia or even the Persian gulf emirates like Kuwait, Qatar and the Emirates ever fall to fundamentalist Islamic regimes because of the instability our stupid attack on Iraq created, our position, as well as that of Israel, will become untenable.

    Frankly, I'm sick of both parties. However, I think it would be far better to have some competent, liberal politicians in office, and would make us far more secure, than to have the incredibly incompetent conservatives we have in there now. I'd rather have a liberal who knows enough about the Middle East to make reasonable policy than an arrogant conservative who cares more about some stupid social policy than a critical foreign policy. There are some arrogant, pig-headed conservatives who need to get a good whipping in November to cool down and come back to earth. Unfortunately, there are probably too many arrogant, pig-headed conservatives who will still vote for their failures and incompetents to provide the kind of margin that will shake things up and get things done.
     
  17. Magnetic Poles

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    Great post, Jack!
     
  18. Baptist Believer

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    What do you mean, that’s it? We’re having a discussion, not a shooting match. If you want to explore some of these allegations individually, we can do that.


    If you’ll go back and look, I quoted a number of items out of the 10 that I thought were way off base. Instead of talking about them individually, I spoke of them in general.


    Based on the standard definition of the word, “infinite,” the allegation that things would be “infinitely worse” is an obvious exaggeration.


    -- Amnesty for 12,000,000 illegal immigrants.
    I haven’t heard the majority of Democratic candidates pushing for amnesty. Both parties are seem to be somewhat undecided about the issue and appear to be looking for political advantages to use against each other instead of solving the problem.
    -- A push to make homosexual marriage and polygamy legal in all 50 states.

    Where is that on the Democratic agenda? This will be wildly unpopular, especially polygamy.
    -- Only liberal judges will be appointed. They will create laws to implement the social agenda liberals cannot get passed through the legislative process.

    Only liberal judges? I doubt it. You will have more liberal judges appointed with quite a few moderate judges thrown in. You may also have a few conservative judges since not all Democrats are “liberal.” In the same way, while “conservatives” have been in power, we have had some conservative judges appointed, quite a few moderate ones, and perhaps a few “liberals” that snuck by. If you look back at Supreme Court appointments in the last 25 years, you’ll see a mix.
    -- Liberals will make the killing of the unborn more difficult to stop.
    Perhaps. This prediction may have some merit. But remember, laws won’t have much effect on the abortion rate until we have a grassroots cultural shift in the way we view life and sexuality. And that probably won’t change without Christian permeating society with transformed lives.
    -- Liberals will continue to try to rid our society of Christian influence, including any reference to God in our Pledge and on our currency.

    If you think Christian influence is bound up in the slogan on our money and the pledge of allegiance, you’ve already lost the battle.
    -- A return to the "Fairness Doctrine" in broadcasting where opposing views must be given equal time. Every conservative talk show host will be forced to give a liberal equal time on every issue. The purpose of this rule will be to shut down conservative talk shows.

    Maybe, maybe not. But have you ever noticed that moderates rarely get any air time whatsoever? You have to be an extremist to get media attention.
    -- An increase in taxes to push new social programs.

    Perhaps. This prediction may have some merit. If the social programs are valid and generally helpful to society, I don’t mind a tax increase.
    -- Passing a new "hate crimes" law making it illegal to refer to homosexuality in a negative manner.

    I sincerely doubt it. Besides being a blatant violation of the First Amendment, the American public is sick and tired of political correctness.
    -- Liberals will give terrorists from other countries who try to kill Americans the same rights American citizens enjoy under our constitution.

    This is such a loaded set of presuppositions and characterizations that it would be nearly impossible to respond to concisely. However, Democrats are more likely than Republicans to push for Geneva Convention standards in dealing with detained terror suspects. But I don’t think you can easily lump the widely diverging views of the individual members of Congress, from both parties, into two distinct camps.
    --We will withdraw from Iraq, sending the message to the terrorists that if they will just be patient they can win and bring their terrorist acts to the U.S.

    I believe Democrats will be more likely to withdraw from Iraq than Republicans, BUT, I think everyone, regardless if they are a Democrat or Republican, knows that we can’t simply pack up and leave without horrific consequences to ourselves, Iraq and the Middle East region. When the election is over and the campaign rhetoric cools down, we will still have the same set of problems that don’t have easy answers.


    Because the predictions show an incredible lack of understanding about politics, Democrats, and the voting public. If their intention was not to motive people using fear tactics, then they have discredited themselves with their political ignorance.


    Ah, you’re trying to make me sound like someone who wants to controls others... That’s very Rush Limbaugh of you. I’m not trying to control, I’m confronting something that is false. People have the right to make up their own mind and go with their conscience, but I have the responsibility to point out misleading rhetoric.
     
  19. carpro

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    My point exactly. Who's afraid? Obviously not you.
    MP-Obviously not
    BB-Obviously not

    Scare tactics? Who is scaring who? Who is it you're worried about?

    Right now it looks like the only "scare tactic" being used is by the ones that are protesting "scare tactics". IE Jack, MP, and BB

    It looks to me like you're trying to scare...other people into being scared.

    Who?
     
  20. billwald

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    Nothing important will change:

    1. Assets will continue to be transferred from Americans to our owner's Swiss bank accounts.

    2. The middle class will continue to shrink.

    3. The establishment of the North American Union will continue.
     

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