What IFB or Traditional Baptist Doctrine Do You Reject? .....

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by IveyLeaguer, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. IveyLeaguer

    IveyLeaguer
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    I realize the Baptist whole is very fragmented these days but I'm interested in examining the more conservative Baptist doctrine such as IFB and SBC ... especially IFB. Eschatology, Calvin/Arminian and KJVO are excluded, please.

    Is there any doctrine or tradition within these denominations that you might consider man-made or unbiblical? If so, what are they?

    :saint:
     
    #1 IveyLeaguer, Apr 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2010
  2. Crabtownboy

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    Would you give us some examples? I am not asking if you disagree with them, just let us know the doctrines we might disagree or agree with. Thanks. W
     
  3. annsni

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    A few that stand out to me:

    KJVO
    Hymns only
    Skirts/dresses only
     
  4. IveyLeaguer

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    I don't have any particular doctrine in mind.

    Baptist doctrine is pretty solid on the whole, especially the major, critical doctrines such as Inspiration, Who Jesus Is, the Resurrection, the Trinity, etc., etc.. I would not expect any disagreement of those here.

    But as doctrine spreads from these basics, which are absolutely clear in Scripture, at some point in each direction we get to doctrine that is not so crystal clear and undeniable, at which point the traditions of men become infused to some degree or another. And inevitably, there are cases where traditions of men become Biblical doctrine in certain circles. This is what I'm interested in.

    For example, there is an IFB preacher I know who claims and teaches that Baptist doctrine is equivalent to the Word of God, because they are one and the same. Another example ... many conservatives, Baptist and otherwise, would consider having a glass of wine or smoking a cigarette a sin. That's an obvious one.

    And there are other weird doctrines that I've noticed from IFB circles, such as Heaven consisting of primarily Baptists, etc..

    This is the sort of thing I'm looking for. Not so much to debate it, but to identify them.

    ~~~
     
  5. pinoybaptist

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    Most doctrines are solid, I will say, but I reject the following traditions:

    Sunday School, choirs, special numbers, altar call, repeat-after-me-and-you're-saved.
     
  6. Cutter

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    Maybe you should ask too, if there are matters that would prevent one from being able to worship with them. Not all the time, mind you, just if you went with a friend or had to go there for another occasion.
     
  7. Crabtownboy

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    WOW! He must have quite an ego.

    That reminds me of the joke I heard years ago. St. Peter is showing a newcomer around heaven. The fellow looks ahead and asks,

    "What is the beautiful garden?"

    St. Peter says, "That is the Catholic and Orthodox garden.

    The fellow looks around and see another garden, not quite as formal, and asks, "What garden is that."

    "Oh," St. Peter replies, "that is the Anglican garden."

    The man see a third garden, kind of a rambling garden. He is curious now and asks "What garden is that?"

    "That is the Protestant garden," replies St. Peter.

    The man looks ahead and asks, "What is that big windowless brick building ahead?"

    St. Peter replies, "Don't talk too loudly. That is the Baptist Building and they think they are the only ones here."



    Pinoybaptist said: Sunday School, choirs, special numbers, altar call

    PB, just curious, not agruing ... what is wrong with Sunday School Choirs, special numbers and alter calls?
     
    #7 Crabtownboy, Apr 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2010
  8. StefanM

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    The biggest one that comes to mind is tithing.
     
  9. Crabtownboy

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    Yes, the tithe is just the beginning. Christ calls us to give all. We must be willing to give all if he calls for its use.
     
  10. zrs6v4

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    thats interesting and I think am with you in 'not' doing the altar calls, special believers prayer, and special numbers.

    I would like to ask you to elaborate on your Sunday school and choir view a little by answering a couple of questions:

    1. How would you approach a non-Sunday school fellowship, would it be the same just not called Sunday school?

    2. How would you approach worship without a choir? are you talking band or simply having no choir at all?

    thanks, Zach
     
  11. BrotherRich

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    The "altar call". It is a doctrine. The SBC actually has(or had when I was with SBC 1995-2000) a course called Decision Time.
     
    #11 BrotherRich, Apr 5, 2010
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  12. abcgrad94

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    Some of the things I'm not in complete agreement with would be:

    head coverings for women

    skirts/dresses only for women

    no credit cards, ever

    women should be silent during business meetings

    overweight people cannot be on the platform (to sing, preach, etc) I'm NOT making this up--I actually know of an IFB college that had this rule! They thought it was a "bad testimony."

    People who smoke cannot serve as teachers or leaders in the church

    secondary separation--that is, you cannot be friends with another person of like faith if they are friends with another person who doesn't believe/dress/talk exactly the way you do

    no going to movies

    no babies allowed in church services--they must be taken to the nursery so they aren't a "distraction" even if they aren't crying

    You must be re-baptized to join another church

    To me, these are man-made rules and not really doctrinal issues, but IFB churches/pastors I know of preach them to BE "doctrines" or "traditions" of their churches.
     
  13. IveyLeaguer

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    Well, that's a good question as well.

    I've visited and worshipped in a lot of places that do things and believe things that I know are wrong, even silly. Yet, for the most part, they are genuine believers, who love the Lord. I've also visited churches, and one Baptist church in particular, where they are so far out and fanatic, I doubt anyone in the medium-sized congregation had a clue about sound doctrine. Certainly the leaders didn't.

    The IFB retired pastor I mentioned is an elder in my church, though he is not representative of the pastor or the membership at large. He has some serious issues, IMHO, but I still love the guy and get along for the most part. He is KJVO, and if I understood him right several times over the past few years in private, Baptist only as well. And that idea stems from one of his IFB circle of pastors or associations, I'm pretty sure, which are not a part of our church. But I know he loves the Lord, and in most areas he is theologically well-versed and sound, even though he is closed to opposing thought and beliefs rather than being open and willing to test doctrine, like a Berean. There's an element of pride and self-righteousness there, if you know what I mean.

    I guess, more than anything else, I'm looking for an apologetic to counter that sort of extremism as he is discipling several young believers in our church. I know firsthand what bad teaching can do to a young believer and the damage and destruction to the overall purpose of God that extremist theology causes.

    I pretty much know how to defend against it, and more examples of bad doctrine or extremism will help in that defense. I also want to approach the issue broadly in order to minimize collateral damage, so all examples of errant Baptist teaching are helpful. Errant teachings of other denominations are much easier, I'm familiar with those.

    So I appreciate the input.

    ~~~
     
    #13 IveyLeaguer, Apr 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2010
  14. kyredneck

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    IL, the sort of extremism and rigidity you're referring to has driven many of the Lord's little lambs away from the Church down through the ages. I know of these kind of people very well. They drove me away from the Church as a young man. But God was gracious to me.
     
  15. kyredneck

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    Very good.

    And I would add Landmarkism to the list. 'God is able of these stones to raise up sons unto Abraham'.
     
  16. pinoybaptist

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    What is a non-Sunday school fellowship ? Do you mean an informal Bible study in a church setting ?
    I believe the study of Scriptures is to be an individual endeavor, not a classroom type one, or a group one, where there is a study leader, and doctrine spoon fed to the learner instead of the learner being taught by the Holy Spirit who the Lord designated as the teacher.

    No choir at all. Just the congregation singing acapella and "making melody in their hearts".
    I used to sing in choirs before becoming a Primitive Baptist, and it struck me that practice was intended to provide for a perfect performance which no matter if the choir director is to be "pleasing to the Lord" so often end up really endeavoring to please the crowd.
    The flesh always gets in the way in choir singing, and I don't care how vehemently that is denied.
    I've seen it with my own eyes, heard it with my own ears, and also experienced it personally.
     
  17. Crabtownboy

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    Are you saying that the Holy Spirit cannot use others in teaching you in a class setting?
     
  18. ccrobinson

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    What we have here is personal preference. If you want to be at a church where there's only acapella singing, have at it. But, let's not pretend that your experience is the arbiter of what's good and bad in church.


    And I don't care whether you believe me or not. The flesh doesn't always get in the way. If you can't, or won't, understand that, then you have the problem. If this happened for you, then it's good that you're not singing in a choir anymore.
     
  19. pinoybaptist

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    I'm not pretending anything. The OP asked, I gave the answer, and this was purely individual choice. If I elaborated and you have a problem with my elaboration, then go sit in the poop chair instead of starting a spat with me.

    Like I said, I gave my opinion and I am not forcing this down anyone's throat.
    If you feel you are absolutely holy, then be holy still, good for you.
    I know what I saw, heard, and experienced.
    It's MY sight, hearing, and experience.
    If you have a different one, then pat yourself in the back and be sure to remind the Lord when you get to heaven that you were not like Pinoy Baptist.
     
  20. ReformedBaptist

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    KJVO
    Tithing (there is no tithing in the NT)
    Standards for dress that = holiness
    Rapture
    Pre-trib
    Pre-mill
    Anything by Tim Lahaye

    Adding:

    Altar Call
    Sinner's Prayer.
     

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