What is a Baptist

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Son of Coffee Man, Sep 22, 2002.

  1. Son of Coffee Man

    Son of Coffee Man
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    This is not for criticism of the board's leadership. I would like to briefly say thank you to those who manage this board for providing a free forum for discussions like these.

    However, given the statement, I think the question is relative, "what is a baptist then?"

    Here are the distinctives of Baptist belief as I learned them:

    B - Bible as only rule of faith and practice. Word is inerrant, infallible, preserved.

    A - Autonomy of local church. No governing body other than what the individual church establishes for itself.

    P - Priesthood of the believer. No need for mediator, I can go right to God myself.

    T - Two ordinances: LORD's supper, baptism.

    I - Individual soul liberty. Each believer accountable to the LORD only for right living.

    S - saved, baptized, church membership.

    T - Two offices: pastor, deacon.

    S - Separated: ecclesiastically and personally.

    Are these still biblical standpoints by which we may call ourselves baptists today? If not then where is the scriptural evidence for needed change in these points or adding of more?

    SoCM
     
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    For the purposes of this board here, a Baptist is one who attends a Baptist Church and is a member of a Baptist Church. There is no creed to be agreed to in order to be accepted. That would be more Catholic than it is Baptist.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  3. Son of Coffee Man

    Son of Coffee Man
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    understood. Not asking for all members of this board to agree to a creed. but "a house divided against itself can not stand". Baptist can not mean the Bible is inerrant, and the Bible is full of errors at the same time.

    So I would like to re-raise the originally stated question.

    SoCM
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    On a more personal level, I would agree that this is what most Baptists today would hold to as Baptist distinctive, but they are not, however, binding standards by which to judge all Baptists.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    What is a Baptist?

    Anyone who is a member of a congregation which meets in a building that has a sign out front that has the word "Baptist" painted on it.

    ;0)

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Correct!!!! Isn't freedom great?

    Joseph Botwinick

    PS: I may not like what some of these Baptist Churches say, teach or do, but I also have the freedom to not associate with them. I will not be that governing body that dictates to their local congregation what freedoms they may and may not have. We sure wouldn't want them to do that to us, would we?
     
  7. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Joseph,

    I also have the freedom to call them liars.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Mark,

    Good for you. Does that make you feel better to belittle someone you believe to be wrong? But you are right, you have that freedom to a point. You just need to make sure that your freedom does not trample over the rules of this board. Otherwise, the administration has not only the obligation, but the right to enforce the rules of this board that you agreed to when you signed on to this board.

    Joseph Botwinick
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  9. Phillip

    Phillip
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    I agree Joseph, but sometimes moderators may not necessarily be correct either. Let me put forth a hypothetical situation: I am a new member, I attend a Baptist church and I love to have sex with the kids in my Sunday School class (4th graders), then according to your rules I would be allowed to spread my opinion on a board, which, granted, is private, but claims to be Baptist and therefore has a responsibility to keep me from spewing my evil to the unbelieving world under pretense of being Baptist -- much like the responsibility of ethical reporting in a newspaper or radio station that is privately owned, but is supposed to (not always doing a good job) serve the public. Private board or not you claim responsibility as a Baptist and where do you draw a line? In my Bible I don't see anything wrong with showing my 4th graders a "good time" --- now -- this was just hypothetical, but explain to me that you would let me on your board because I claim to be Baptist with just a different viewpoint of child molestation. . .

    (Disclaimer--as all of you know the above story about me is NOT true and I work to put child molesters in jail--I just want to see how the board justifies any belief that goes beyond the Holy Scriptures--by the way this is not meant to be hateful--I would really like an explanation of the boards judgment and how it works--I know this board uses its personal editorial power to shut people off it does not agree with---what is the difference?)
     
  10. Jim1999

    Jim1999
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    A Baptist even has the right to be wrong. He may still call himself a Baptist.
    We fellowship on different things. My test of fellowship is how well he mans the oars. Does his theology take our ship in circles. I might choose another to row the ship. Does his personality clash with mine? I might better let him row his own ship, but share the sea with him.
    But call his ship HMCS Baptist? I cannot deny him that. If he claims a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, I must love him in that same Christ. I might not like him, or his theology, but I must love him, and love him I will.

    In His name,

    Jim
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    I don't speak for all moderators here and this issue would be discussed in the private forum if it ever did arise (which it actually did one time, sort of; the only difference is the person in question did not claim to be a Christian or a Baptist), and the mods collectively or the webmaster would make a decision as to what to do. But my opinion is this, theological differences is different from promoting illegal activities. A good case for this looking at the flip side would be to say that correct theology does not always guarantee advocating legal activities. For example, if a fundamentalists Baptist were to come here and advocate threatening, harrassing, and endangering the lives of abortion doctors (and we have had some of these here also), they would probably be disciplined for advocating illegal behaviors here on the Board. Although I agree with them and their stance against abortion, and probably agree theologically with them on several things, their behavior is what keeps them from posting. By the same token, if a pedophile comes on here to discuss theology and what the Bible says, that is one thing. But to advocate illegal activities here on the board is another and would not be allowed. If this person were to talk about crimes they have committed, I would immediately (unlike the Catholic Church) report this person to the proper authorities and would even show up in court to testify against this person and see that justice is served. Therefore, there is a distinction to draw between advocating illegal behaviours and discussing honest theological differences on the board.

    This is a patently false statement. If anything, we have fought to allow the opinions of Baptists who we disagree with to be expressed as long as they can do so within the boundaries of the rules that they agreed to. That is, unless you are an atheist troll from the Infidels board who is upset about the fact that you and all of your friends were banned this past April. If that is the point of view you are coming from, then you are absolutely correct.

    Joseph Botwinick
    Moderator
     
  12. rsr

    rsr
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    Mark is interested only in condemnation, not discussion. I will post on this thread, and similar ones, no more.
     
  13. Son of Coffee Man

    Son of Coffee Man
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    Great!

    You all succeeded in getting way off the point in under 11 posts.

    Now let me redirect the issue back to the question of origin.

    Baptist can not be everything, if it is everything it is nothing. Example: if any relationship is marriage then marriage is nothing. There must be some distinctives.

    Granted all of Baptist belief will not agree on all points of the distinctives but there should be some. They also should not contradict eachother because that would present a faulty theological system.

    So now would someone like to make a futher comment on the distinctives I have suggested or state some others?

    SoCM
     
  14. Rev. G

    Rev. G
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    We are everything ("the church of believe what you want to"), so it is no wonder that no one can define "Baptist" anymore.

    Rev. G
     

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