What is a Calvanist?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Sminasian, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. Sminasian

    Sminasian
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    I seriously do not know.

    You see, the " traditional" church I may go back to, had an issue a few years back. Pastors son was starting to take over some of the preaching and began teaching calavinist teachings. This was contrary to what the pastor, his father, always preached.
    The pastor decided he had to relieve his son of his duties because he was teaching another doctorine. Half the people stayed at that church and the other half followed the son who now has his own church. Other people have said that the son is preaching expository , and the gospel of grace.

    Grace: I did attend a church that preached only grace. No church membership, no tithing, no baptism, no nothing. to me it resemmbled a free for all, anything was ok, and accepted. The pastor smoked cigars, was on dating websites, divorced and not married, the church body, well lets just say you would know they were believers if you fell over them. So, is calvanist the same as the gospel of grace?
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    They correctly believe God is in complete control
    Grace Community Baptist Church
    Pastor Robert Ventura | North Providence, Rhode Island
    Email Us! Our Website 401-826-3121



    http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html
     
    #2 Iconoclast, Sep 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2012
  3. Sminasian

    Sminasian
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    God is always in control. So what is the difference between them and baptist?
     
  4. Iconoclast

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  5. Luke2427

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    The VAST majority of baptists for the first couple of hundred years of Baptist existence WERE Calvinists.

    The Southern Baptists were largely Calvinistic in our early days.
     
  6. annsni

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  7. Sminasian

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    Ok none of this makes sense to me. :BangHead:
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    Contact The Pastor I linked for you,,,,and stay tuned,

    To learn, you must read your bible and study

    look up each verse offered
     
  9. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Sminasian, your first lesson is the correct spelling. It's Calvinist, not Calvanist.
     
  10. Alive in Christ

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    That feeling will get worse and worse as you find out what calvinists believe.
     
  11. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Boy..Did You Say A Mouthful That Time!

    Sandie, Don't be misled. One of the things that Calvinists believe is that ONLY those who are "predestined" by God to go to heaven will get there.They teach that ONLY the "elect" of God will be saved. All others will go to Hell and have no chance of repentance. They refute the idea that man's will is operative in salvation. They don't believe that man has any choice in the matter. That contradicts the plain teaching of scripture that God loves all. Remember...it really is this simple. In John 3:16,God says,"For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER (caps mine)believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." God ONLY HAD TO SAY THAT ONCE IN HIS WORD FOR IT TO BE TRUE. John Calvin was only a man and there is some amount of evidence that can be found that suggests that he was a lost son of the Roman Catholic church who never had a clear testimony of Biblical salvation. I know these words may mean war to some but I am convinced that is true according to the evidence I have read and heard. It is documented fact that Calvin had men that disagreed with him put to death. Not very Biblical. Just read,study,and believe your Bible and don't follow the fallible words of fallible men. The Calvinist teachings do contain some truths but they also contain much error. I recommend that you read up on the subject by studying these articles by Bro.David Cloud of wayoflife.org :
    The Calvinism Debate
    Calvin's Camels (actually an article By Bro.Dave Hunt that refutes Calvinism)
    These are both excellent articles that should give you ample information to help you safely wade through this confusion. If you need any thing further feel free to let me know.

    Bro.Greg
     
  12. SovereignMercy

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    Here is an example of what Baptists believed until humanism crept in.

    1729 Goat Yard Declaration of Faith

    A Declaration of the Faith and Practice of the Church of Christ at Horsely-down,
    Under the Pastoral Care of Mr. John Gill, & c.

    Having been enabled, through divine grace, to give up ourselves to the Lord, and likewise to one another by the will of God; we account it a duty incumbent upon us to make a declaration of our faith and practice, to the honour of Christ, and the glory of his name; knowing, that as with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, so with the mouth confession is made unto salvation--our declaration is as follows:

    I.
    We believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament are the word of God, and the only
    rule of faith and practice.

    II.
    We believe that there is but one only living and true God; that there are three Persons in the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, who are equal in nature, power, and glory; and that the Son and the Holy Ghost are as truly and as properly God as the Father.

    III.
    We believe that, before the world began, God did elect a certain number of men unto everlasting salvation, whom He did predestinate to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ, of His own free grace, and according to the good pleasure of His will: and that, in pursuance of this gracious design, He did contrive and make a covenant of grace and peace with His Son Jesus Christ, on the behalf of those persons, wherein a Saviour was appointed, and all spiritual blessings provided for them; as also that their persons, with all their grace and glory, were put into the hands of Christ, and made His care and charge.

    IV.
    We believe that God created the first man, Adam, after His own image, and in His likeness; an upright, holy, and innocent creature, capable of serving and glorifying Him; but, he sinning, all his posterity sinned in him, and came short of the glory of God: the guilt of whose sin is imputed, and a corrupt nature derived, to all his offspring, descending from him by ordinary and natural generation: that they are by their first birth carnal and unclean, averse to all that is good, incapable of doing any and prone to every sin; and are also by nature children of wrath, and under a sentence of condemnation, and so are subject not only to a corporal death, and involved in a moral one, commonly called spiritual, but are also liable to an eternal death, as considered in the first Adam, fallen and sinners; from all which there is no deliverance but by Christ, the second Adam.

    V.
    We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, being set up from everlasting as the Mediator of the new covenant, and He, having engaged to be the surety of His people, did, in the fullness of time, really assume human nature, and not before, neither in whole nor in part; His human soul, being a creature, existed not from eternity, but was created and formed in His body by Him that forms the spirit of man within him, when that was conceived in the womb of the virgin; and so His human nature consists of a true body and a reasonable soul; both which, together, and at once, the Son of God assumed into union with his divine Person, when made of a woman, and not before; in which nature He really suffered and died as their substitute, in their room and stead, whereby He made all that satisfaction for their sins, which the law and justice of God could require, as well as made way for all those blessings, which are needful for them both for time and eternity.

    VI.
    We believe that that eternal redemption, which Christ has obtained, by the shedding of his blood, is special and particular, that is to say, that it was only intentionally designed for the elect of God, and sheep of Christ, who only share the special and peculiar blessings of it.

    VII.
    We believe that the justification of God's elect is only by the righteousness of Christ imputed to them, without the consideration of any works of righteousness done by them; and that the full and free pardon of all their sins and transgressions, past, present, and to come, is only through the blood of Christ, according to the riches of His grace.

    VIII.
    We believe that the work of regeneration, conversion, sanctification, and faith, is not an act of man's free will and power, but of the mighty, efficacious, and irresistible grace of God.

    IX.
    We believe that all those who are chosen by the Father, redeemed by the Son, and sanctified by the Spirit, shall certainly and finally persevere, so that not one of them shall ever perish, but shall have everlasting life.

    X.
    We believe that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust; and that Christ will come a second time to judge both quick and dead, when He will take vengeance on the wicked, and introduce His own people into His kingdom and glory, where they shall be for ever with Him.

    XI.
    We believe that Baptism and the Lord's Supper are ordinances of Christ, to be continued until his second coming; and that the former is absolutely requisite to the latter; that is to say, that those only are to be admitted into the communion of the church, and to participate of all ordinances in it, who upon profession of their faith, have been baptized by immersion, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

    XII.
    We also believe that singing of psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, vocally, is an ordinance of the Gospel to be performed by believers; but that as to time, place, and manner, every one ought to be left to their liberty in using it.

    Now all, and each of these doctrines and ordinances, we look upon ourselves under the greatest obligations to embrace, maintain, and defend; believing it to be our duty to stand fast, in one spirit, with one mind, striving together for the faith of the Gospel.

    And whereas we are very sensible, that our conversation, both in the world and in the church, ought to be as becometh the Gospel of Christ, we judge it our incumbent duty to walk in wisdom towards them that are without, to exercise a conscience void of offence towards God and men, by living soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

    And as to our regards to each other, in our church-communion, we esteem it our duty to walk with each other in all humility and brotherly love: to watch over each other's conversation; to stir up one another to love and good works; not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as we have opportunity, to worship God according to his revealed will; and, when the case requires, to warn, rebuke, and admonish one another, according to the rules of the Gospel.

    Moreover, we think ourselves obliged to sympathize with each other, in all conditions, both inward and outward, which God, in his providence, may bring us into; as also to bear with one another's weaknesses, failings, and infirmities, and particularly to pray for one another, and that the Gospel and the ordinances thereof might be blessed to the edification and comfort of each other's souls, and for the gathering in of others to Christ, besides those who are already gathered--all which duties we desire to be found in the performance of, through the gracious assistance of the Holy Spirit, whilst we both admire and adore the grace which has given us a place and a name in God's house, better than that of sons and daughters
     
  13. SovereignMercy

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  14. SovereignMercy

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    And don't be misled by Gregory either. There are no chapter or verse delineations in scripture. It was written in sentences and paragraphs, not little snippets taken from here and there and twisted to teach free will which is a concoction of Satan himself. Read the Gospel of John over and over as a whole and if God opens your eyes you will see the truth.

    But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

    I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.

    These passages from the gospel show Gregory knows very little about how to interpret scripture. Notice how John defines what he means by world in John 3 in the book of Revelation. Actually it is the Holy Spirit who inspired him.

    And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals; for You were slain, and have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and have made us kings and priests to our God; and we shall reign on the earth."
     
  15. Michael Wrenn

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    And here is an example of what the original Baptists believed until Calvinism crept in; notice particularly articles 5 and 7; also, look at what it says about men and women in article 20:

    Helwys' Declaration of Faith--The First Baptist Confession, 1611

    Thomas Helwys is known as the founder of the Baptist movement. He was an Arminian, and so history records that the first Baptists in Europe were Arminian. His Declaration of Faith is recorded below.

    A DECLARATION OF FAITH OF ENGLISH PEOPLE REMAINING AT AMSTERDAM IN HOLLAND.

    Hebrews 11:6. Without Faith it is impossible to please GOD. Hebrews 11. Romans 14:23. Whatsoever is not of Faith is sin. 30/84 Printed. 1611. To All The Humble minded which love the truth in simplicity Grace and peace. [This is followed by two pages of preface.]

    A DECLARATION, ETC. WE BELEIVE AND CONFESS

    1. That there are THREE which bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the SPIRIT; and these THREE are one GOD, in all equality, (1 John 5:7; Philippians 2:5, 6). By whom all things are created and preserved, in Heaven and in Earth. (Genesis 1).

    2. That this GOD in the beginning created al things of nothing, (Genesis 1:1) and made man of the dust of the earth, (Genesis 2:7), in his own image, (Genesis 1:27), in righteousness and true Holiness. (Ephesians 4:24); yet being tempted, fell by disobedience. (Ephesians 3:1-7). Through whose disobedience, all men sinned. (Romans 5:12-19). His sin being imputed unto all; and so death went over all men.

    3. That by the promised seed of the woman, JESUS CHRIST, [and by] his obedience, al are made righteous. (Romans 5:19). All are made alive, (1 Corinthians 15:22). His righteousness being imputed unto all.

    4. That notwithstanding this, men are by nature the Children of wrath, (Ephesians 2:3) born in iniquity and in sin conceived. (Psalm 51:5) Wise to all evil, but to good they have no knowledge. (Jeremiah 4:22). The natural man perceives not the things of the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 2:14). And therefore man is not restored unto his former estate, but that as man, in his estate of innocence, having in himself all disposition unto good, & no disposition unto evil, yet being tempted might yield, or might resist: even so now being fallen, and having all disposition unto evil, and no disposition or will unto any good, yet GOD giving grace, man may receive grace, or my reject grace, according to that saying; (Deuteronomy 30:19) I call Heaven and Earth to record. This day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: Therefore choose life that both thou and thy seed may live.

    5. That GOD before the Foundation of the World hath Predestinated that all that believe in him shall-be saved, (Ephesians 1:4, 12; Mark 16:16) and al that believe not shall be damned, (Mark 16:16) all which he knew before. (Romans 8:29) And this is the Election and reprobation spoken of in the Scriptures, concerning salvation, and condemnation, and not that GOD hath Predestinated men to be wicked, and so to be damned, but that men being wicked shall be damned, for GOD would have all men saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth, (1 Timothy 2:4) and would have no man to perish, but would have all men come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9) and wills not the death of him that dies. (Ezekiel 18:32). And therefore GOD is the author of no mans condemnation; according to the saying of the Prophet. (Hosea 13). Thy destruction O Israel, is of thy self, but thy help is of me.

    6. That man is justified only by the righteousness of CHRIST, apprehended by faith, (Romans 3:28. Galatians 2:16) yet faith without works is dead. (James 2:17)

    7. That men may fall away from the grace of GOD, (Hebrews 12:15) and from the truth, which they have received &acknowledged, (Hebrews 10:26) after they have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the HOLY GHOST, and have tasted of the good word of GOD, &of the powers of the world to come. (Hebrews 6:4, 5). And after they have escaped from the filthiness of the World, may be tangled again therein &overcome. (2 Peter 2:20). That a righteous man may forsake his righteousness and perish (Ezekiel 18:24, 26). And therefore let no man presume to think that because he hath, or had once grace, therefore he shall always have grace: But let all men have assurance, that if they continue unto the end, they shall be saved: Let no man then presume; but let all work out their salvation with fear and trembling.

    8. That JESUS CHRIST, the Son of GOD the second Person, or subsistence in the Trinity, in the Fullness of time was manifested in the Flesh, being the seed of David, and of the Israelites, according to the Flesh, (Romans 1:3 and Romans 8:5) the Son of Marie the Virgin, made of her substance, (Galatians 4:4) by the power of the HOLY GHOST overshadowing her, (Luke 1:35) and being thus true Man was like unto us in all thing, sin only excepted. Hebrews (4:15) being one person in two distinct natures, TRUE GOD, and TRUE MAN. 32/84

    9. That JESUS CHRIST is Mediator of the New Testament between GOD and Man, (1 Timothy 2:5) having all power in Heaven and in Earth given unto him. (Matthew 28:18) Being the only KING, (Luke 1:33) PREIST, (Hebrews 7:24) and PROPHET. (Acts 3:22) Of his church, he also being the only Law-giver, hath in his Testament set down an absolute, and perfect rule of direction, for all persons, at all times, to be observed; Which no Prince, nor any whosoever, may add to, or diminish from as they will avoid the fearful judgments denounced against them that shall so do. (Revelation 22:18, 19).

    10. That the church of CHRIST is a company of faithful people (1 Corinthians 1:2. Ephesians 1:1) separated from the world by the word &Spirit of GOD (2 Corinthians 6:17) being knit unto the LORD, &one unto another, by Baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13). Upon their own confession of the faith (Acts 8:37) and sins. (Matthew 3:6).

    11. That though in respect of CHRIST, the Church be one (Ephesians 4:4) yet it consists of divers particular congregations, even so many as there shall be in the World, every of which congregation, though they be but two or three, have CHRIST given them, with all the means of their salvation. (Matthew 18:20. Romans 8:32. 1 Corinthians 3:22). Are the Body of CHRIST (1 Corinthians 12:27) and a whole Church. (1 Corinthians 14:23) And therefore may, and ought, when they are come together, to Pray, Prophecy, break bread, and administer in all the holy ordinances, although as yet they have no Officers, or that their Officers should be in Prison, sick, or by any other means hindered from the Church. (1 Peter 4:10 &2:5).

    12. That as one congregation hath CHRIST, so hath all, (2 Corinthians 10:7). And that the Word of GOD comes not out from any one, neither to any one congregation in particular. (1 Corinthians 14:36). But unto every particular Church, as it doth unto al the world. (Colossians 1:5. 6). And therefore no church ought to challenge any prerogative over any other.

    13. That every Church is to receive in all their members by Baptism upon the Confession of their faith and sins wrought by the preaching of the Gospel, according to the primitive Institution, (Matthew 28:19) and practice, (Acts 2:41). And therefore Churches constituted after any other manner, or of any other persons are not according to CHRISTS Testament. 33/84

    14. That Baptism or washing with water is the outward manifestation of dieing unto sin, and walking in newness of life. (Romans 6:2, 3, 4). And therefore in no wise appertains to infants.

    15. That the LORDS Supper is the outward manifestation of the Spiritual communion between CHRIST and the faithful mutually (1 Corinthians 10:16, 17) to declare his death until he come. (1 Corinthians 11:26).

    16. That the members of every Church or Congregation ought to know one another, so that they may perform all the duties of love one towards another, both to soul and body. (Matthew 18:15; 1 Thessalonians 5:14; 1 Corinthians 12:25). And especially the Elders ought to know the whole flock, whereof the HOLY GHOST hath made them overseers. (Acts 20:28; 1 Peter 5:2, 3). And therefore a Church ought not to consist of such a multitude as cannot have particular knowledge one of another.

    17. That Brethren impenitent in one sin after the admonition of the Church, are to be excluded the communion of the Saints (Matthew 18:17; 1 Corinthians 5:4, 13) &therefore not the committing of sin doth cut of any from the Church, but refusing to hear the Church to reformation.

    Continued.....
     
  16. Michael Wrenn

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    18. That Excommunicants in respect of civil society are not to be avoided, (2 Thessalonians 3:15. Matthew 18:17).

    19. That every Church ought (according to the example of CHRISTS Disciples and primitive Churches) upon every first day of the week, being the LORDS day, to assemble together to pray, prophecy, praise GOD, and break Bread, and perform all other parts of Spiritual communion for the worship of GOD, their own mutual edification, and the preservation of true Religion, &piety in the church (John 20:19. Acts 2:42 and 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2) and that ought not to labor in their callings according to the equity of the moral law, which CHRIST came not to abolish, but to fulfill. (Exodus 20:8 &c).

    20. That the Officers of every Church or congregation are either Elders, who by their office do especially feed the flock concerning their souls, (Acts 20:28, 1 Peter 5:2, 3) or Deacons Men, and Women who by their office relieve the necessities of the poor and impotent brethren concerning their bodies, (Acts 6:1-4). 34/84

    21. That these Officers are to be chosen when there are persons qualified according to the rules in Christ’s Testament, (1 Timothy 3:2-7. Titus 1:6-9. Acts 6:3. 4) by Election and approbation of that Church or congregation whereof they are members, (Acts 6:3. 4 and 14:23), with Fasting, Prayer, and Laying on of hands, (Acts 13:3. and 14:23). And there being but one rule for Elders, therefore but one sort of Elders.

    22. That the Officers of every Church or congregation are tied by Office only to that particular congregation whereof they are chosen, (Acts 14:23, and 20:17. Titus 1:5). And therefore they cannot challenge by office any authorities in any other congregation whatsoever except they would have an Apostleship.

    23. That the scriptures of the Old and New Testament are written for our instruction, (2 Timothy 3:16) &that we ought to search them for they testify of CHRIST, (10:5. 39). And therefore to be used withal reverence, as containing the Holy Word of GOD, which only is our direction in al things whatsoever.

    24. That Magistracy is a Holy ordinance of GOD, that every soul ought to be subject to it not for fear only, but for conscience sake. Magistrates are the ministers of GOD for our wealth, they bear not the sword for naught. They are the ministers of GOD to take vengeance on them that do evil, (Romans 13). That it is a fearful sin to speak evil of them that are in authority, and to despise Government. (2 Peter 2:10). We ought to pay tribute, custom and all other duties. That we are to pray for the, for GOD would have them saved and come to the knowledge of his truth. (1 Timothy 2:1. 4). And therefore they may be members of the Church of CHRIST, retaining their Magistracy, for no Holy Ordinance of GOD debars any from being a member of CHRISTS Church. They bear the sword of GOD, — which sword in all Lawful administrations is to be defended and supported by the servants of GOD that are under their Government with their lives and al that they have according as in the first Institution of that Holy Ordinance. And whosoever holds otherwise must hold, (if they understand themselves) that they are the ministers of the devil, and therefore not to be prayed for nor approved in any of their administrations, — seeing all things they do (as punishing offenders and defending their countries, state, and persons by the sword) is unlawful.

    25. That it is Lawful in a just cause for the deciding of strife to take an oath by the Name of the Lord. (Hebrews 6:16; 2 Corinthians 1:23. Philippians 1:8). 35/84

    26. That the dead shall rise again, and the living being changed in a moment, - having the same bodies in substance though divers in qualities. (1 Corinthians 15:52 and 38. Job 19:15-28. Luke 24:30).

    27. That after the resurrection all men shall appear before the judgment seat of CHRIST to be judged according to their works, that the Godly shall enjoy life Eternal, the wicked being condemned shall be tormented everlastingly in Hell. (Matthew 25:46).

    Finis
     
  17. SovereignMercy

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    Compare what Helwys and Gill taught with scripture. Particularly article 7 in Helwys. He also baptized himself, this is not taught in scripture. You will find he takes scripture out of context over and over again. The Bible alone is the Word of God. True Baptists trace their doctrines ultimately to the Scriptures alone.
     
    #17 SovereignMercy, Sep 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2012
  18. Michael Wrenn

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    I have compared what Helwys taught with scripture; that's why I agree with Helwys. :)

    Yes, true Baptists do trace their doctrines ultimately to the scriptures alone -- not to Calvin. I hate to break it to you, but Calvin was not an apostle.
     
  19. Oldtimer

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    Sister Sandie, a little advise from a old timer, who stayed away from the church far too long. Quite a few regrets for not taking opportunities to both serve our Lord and grow in maturity in His word. There are still many areas of study still waiting to be tackled. Including this one. For myself and for now, it's on hold. I know I'm not ready to dive into the deep end of the pool on this one, yet.

    From your posts, my heart tells me that this might not be the right time to dive into this subject, either. Wait until you've resolved what you're going to do about your question of which church to attend.

    Battles rage all over this forum on this subject. (And some other forums, too.) Pastors, scholars, and laymen are butting heads right and left. Frankly, sometimes they (not all, BTW) are downright nasty to each other in their zeal to convert others to their viewpoint on this subject.

    For now, keep it simple.

    John 3:16 KJB
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    And....

    Luke 23: KJB
    42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

    43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.


    Later, as the Holy Spirit leads you, begin a study of this subject. When you are ready to join this battle:

    Ephesians 6:9-19 KJB
    9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

    10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

    11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

    15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

    16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

    17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

    18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

    19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
     
    #19 Oldtimer, Sep 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2012
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    also realise that there will be some of us here such as myself who would see salvation in the 'calvinistic" fashion, as holding to the doctrines of grace in the TULIP, but NOT hold tomstrictly calvinistic as in Covenant theology, that would be those in the reformed branch of it!
     

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