Featured What is a Calvanist?

Hello Brother Greg,

I have no need to "jump on you at all". You posted three negative posts against what many of us understand to be the truth of God...and referred to us as:

This does not seem edifying Greg! John addressed the saints as;

He does not say, the elder to the spiritual vultures in the elistist club....does your version read that way?

Greg we are not children. If you disagree with the position state your scriptural case. Do not try and do a sneaky drive by attack and then retreat saying;

So if you want to discuss or debate something by all means go right ahead....just speak plainly and you will get a scriptural response.

 

Sminasian....

Very good. You have discerned the the truth, and rejected the error wonderfully.

 

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What does your lord teach you about this verse????
6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Really...are all men going to be saved according to God's purpose.He says His purpose is always accomplished,right here:
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
Everything God has purposed He will do.

This is a false understanding of foreknow,,,he foreknows people.

Because he has not purposed to save all people, or all would be saved.

Well you said you did not know about calvinism, so maybe you could look at the links that were provided for you to read...first, then you might be better able to determine what the scripture says.

well there are many baptists who would rather be baptist, then come to truth.

thats good...continue to study it!

 

Maybe by now it is apparant why Old Timer and I advised not getting involved in these threads involving Calvinism vs free will. I have never seen a thread on the subject that was edifying or civil. Some of these debaters have had years of training in advanced degrees at seminaries, yet, there is total disagreement and anger. Any benefit that might have come from the subject is totally negated by the atmosphere of the threads.

It is quite obvious anyone can take Scripture and back up their position. One of the problems with these threads is that opinions have a way of transforming themselves into doctrine.

I think the best one can do is read the Bible, listen to the Holy Spirit in you, and seek out help from a live, eyeball to eyeball pastor at your local church and listen to him, along with other leaders in your church. Only the Lord can settle the issue in your heart.

Other subjects that result in the same type of result are KJVO, covenant vs dispensationalism, and to a degree, end time theology. Debate is one thing. It will be obvious to you when the thread has reached the gutter, when words appear like heresey, pathetic, lie, idea born in hell, the constant use of the word "you," very sad, and other such demeaning terms.

 

You are correct. That's why I'm determine not to let myself get into these kinds of discussions again, although there are a couple of threads where I'll probably just have to bow out to keep from getting entangled in heated discussions again.

I figure if I can be friends with a Primitive Baptist and develop a friendly relationship with Icon, anything is possible, and I don't want to get back to those quarrelsome days and ways.

 

Been There...Done That...Not Happy About It!

Bro.Michael...your assessment of this is "spot-on" and I agree. I will admit that I have said some things in this very thread that were ...ahem...less than friendly in reference to Calvinism in general and to Calvinists in particular. I wish to apologize if I got out of hand but I will remind everyone that Christ called the religious leaders of His day a bunch of vipers (Modern translation...'a bunch of snakes') and Paul called false teachers and those who blasphemed by name. I DON'T put myself on par with them but they did set an example which stands in scripture unto this very day. I'm just sad that such a divisive issue keeps getting "center stage" in here.

Sister Sandie, I do agree with Alive in Christ...it appears from your last post that you have been able to discern the truth of the matter and God Bless You for that. Like I previously said a number of pages ago....if you want some balanced and scriptural information on the facts about Calvinism, just go to : Way of life.org and do a search on Calvinism. There is a wealth of well-researched information there that is written for folks to read regardless of their spiritual or educational level. I highly recommend it.

Bro.Greg

 

Yes, what God foreknows will surely come to pass. The difference is that Joe chose of his own free will whether he believed or not.

Joe has a real choice in his lifetime. If he chooses to reject Jesus, this is what God foreknew all along. If Joe chooses to believe on Jesus, this is what God foreknew all along.

There is a HUGE difference between the views. God foreknew that Judas would not believe and would betray Jesus, but God did not cause Judas to sin. God never tempts any man to sin.

The difference is night and day.

 

Amen.

Perhaps, a year ago, I became involved with a discussion led by a Jehovah Witness in another forum. The focus in that forum is on another subject, with "religion" discussion being a sub-forum. She was well versed in the scriptures that appeared to support her doctrine. She was also well versed in "The Greek says....". Plus, she had an answer to every point brought up in rebuttal by others.

Including, to me, a heart wrenching reply, when she said she had no hope of being in heaven with Christ, since the 144,000 had already been chosen. The grave was her final destination. How, why, could she profess to be a Christian and not have hope of spending eternity with our Lord? That question led to a study of JW beliefs. Took the time needed to take a close look at what the Watchtower had to say. Took the time needed to visit sites with point by point scriptual rebuttal of their doctrine. The end result is that I politely tell them to leave when they knock on my front door. I don't want to hear what they have to say. Nor, will I "debate" my faith with them.

John 3:16 KJB
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Before anyone comes at me with guns blazing, I'm not lumping Calvinists and JW together in doctrine/beliefs. That's NOT my point. My point is that I did spend a considerable amount of time in study of a group of people who put restrictions on John 3:16. Thus saying whosoever is limited in some manner. Based on my brief understanding of Calvinists beliefs there are restrictions on who can come to Christ.

At this point in my life, I'm not ready to devote days, weeks, months, and possibly years of study with a high probability that my simple, child-like faith in John 3:16 won't change. Perhaps, one day, the Holy Spirit will lead me to undertake it. For now, God has other purposes for the time that would be devoted to this particular study. Three days ago I was blessed to hear a profession of faith from a man to whom I've been a witness for many months.

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

You summed it up far better than I did/could. Thank you. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

I agree. Too many on here think we are on opposing sides, when in fact, we're not.

 

God desires that all men come to repentance and trust in jesus, but he also knows NONE can do that apart from th Will and Working of himself to save His chosen peoples!

 

AIC,

This statement makes no biblical sense.

 

3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

 

What makes no sense is the 24 hour a day, seven day a week, nonstop arguing and name calling between Calvinists and Arminians. What is sad is that each side has turned their opinion of Scripture into Biblical doctrine, and neither side has any idea what the innermost thoughts of the Lord are.

 

It is a matter of perspective. Your responses make no sense to me when you do this:

If you followed this thread...a question was asked...what is Calvinism? Several of us start to answer the OP....with comments, confessional statements,...it was not asking.....how do we debate the issue.! it was asking.....what is Calvinism?

It was not asking.....Who was John Calvin.It was not asking...how do people like dave Hunt and others false teachers oppose the truth. No one said you or OLdtimer had to "get involved".
You choose to.....but you did not really attempt to answer the OP..EwF called you on that.

The poster was in a church where the new pastor began to preach truth and the goats silenced Him. Instead they want to revert to a "form of Godliness", make sure to Dress right, probably , no tv, radio, , swimming, facial hair...etc...Man made rules rather than scriptural teaching.
The poster will go there and every two weeks hear about separation from the world,the evils of drinking, and be told doctrine divides, no need to study....just "keep it simple: as if God gave us a post-card with Jn 3:16...and not a bible.

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I have seen many threads on this topic, that were edifying and comforting ,and instructive for the Sheep. Not many in here is as soon as someone offers something good, the well is poisoned , the poster is provoked , and no real effort is made to address the issue.

If the poster answers back....of course....they are arrogant and rude.....even if the objectors blaspheme God, cannot read a sentence correctly, or refuse clear biblical correction.
Then the same people moan on other threads...why is the church in such bad shape???

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The anger is generated by those who rather than address the issue, look for a loop hole, or just undermine the whole discussion.The poster gets frustrated when they see what amounts to dishonesty coming back at them.
While we are told and instructed to be patient....with those who oppose themselves....it becomes obvious that some will resist at all costs.
Archangel...breaks down the greek grammar, shows why a post has gone off...and he is dismissed because of the person derailing the thread.

Correct, agreed......but this is because of the same suspects who are not really looking to find truth.....we know that because they say......I could not worship a God who does what you teach...or the always bogus....well my bible says...

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Not really. You can make that statement...but in most cases...one position is usually shown to be in error. People can mis-use scripture to attempt to make a biblical case.....that is why we post openly...

According to you...1 cor 11....just went down-hill because Paul said there would be heresies among you......he used the word, and identified the heretics in there midst...Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil.

Or biblical doctrine is ignored at the expense of truth being proclaimed, or at least sought after.
The non edifying portions are the smug, drive by posts, made by those who are so shallow in their understanding, they not only cannot respond biblically....but they turn on those when they do not even understand the teaching in the slightest. They then go on to suggest....truth and doctrine is really not important at all....It must be hidden for special times in the future...when at that future date...we might sneak up on these teachings.

This suggestion is almost the same as the mormon elder who hands you the book of mormon and tells you to read the book of nephi...and wait until you feel the burning in your Bosom to confirm it as truth....

How do you know the church she found is solid at all??? what if the "eldership" is the side who caused the split???? you are telling her...yes just go back...make sure you dress modestly...and adhere to their rules....That is like Billy graham telling catholics to go back to a priest for guidance.

truth is given by God.....in the OP..a question is asked...there is no way the poster had time to look up and"research this issue" ...in less than 24 hours...and have a good grasp on it.
Maybe God in His mercy has some solid believers there so it is not just another legalistic body who substitues their own rules and outward formalism...for God's truth.
She will not know the difference, unless God in His providence over-rules.....but it is not for us to be presumptuous. She should have been advised to take her time, take a look at it...visit 4-5 churches and see what is going on.

 

Lets see, many people agreed with the post, and you do not. You are the master at turning opinion into doctrine, so, I will take my understanding of grace and sovereignty over yours any day of the week. Your opinion of Scripture is not Inspired.

 

Yes...look at those who "liked' your post.....all who deny the Doctrines of Grace......
You go your way I will go mine.

I never said mine was. You have a habit of viewing everything through your lens, from your local church.....everyone else is wrong to you.
You claim to believe in Sovereign grace, and yet,side with those who claim God saves all men...but it is up to man to choose to save himself at the same time.
That is not the doctrine I know. You rant about Calvin as if you....SN were an eyewitness to all things that happened there..depending on what history book you read.
None of us quote calvin...yet EWF pointed out you go off on him all the time...even when no one asks you. Calvin is already in the eternal state, with Jesus as his judge...not you....
Any of those who murdered Christians will give an account to God.

That has nothing to do with the teaching of what is called ...calvinism..

it is the scriptural teaching that Jesus gave,and the apostles.
it is foundational.....i do not care if calvin read it, talked about it, or augustine, or anyone else....the teaching is at issue.

look at your ...participation here.... you did not answer the question raised....you sided with those who speak against the truth you say you believe....Have you heard the sad arguments of Cloud, and Hunt???

If they did not say it in your church it did not happen. When is the last time you presented a scriptural case for truth??
Worry less about what i have to say, unless you want to offer some biblical correction...which if shown I would accept....read the thread again. none of the objectors answered anything scriptural at all, but insist it is wrong...The original poster says God does not choose anyone...I ask her to respond to deut 7:6...and she disappears??? her statement was a direct contradiction of the verse...but she is now happy to go "home" to a church that will dance around all such verses.

 

Baloney. Read the post before you respond. I did not side with either position. Not only did you not address the post, you had to get another paragraph about your idea of sovereignty. By the way, it is not what I say I believe, it is what I believe. Give it a rest. Expand your mind. Once in a given week, talk about another subject.