What is a COMMANDMENT?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by vooks, May 16, 2015.

  1. vooks

    vooks
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    1
    What do you understand by the word COMMANDMENT as used in the scriptures especially NT like say in John 14:15?

    John 14:15 (KJV)
    If ye love me, keep my commandments
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Some may be tempted to think of Christ as a "legalist" when they read Mark 7 because it sounds so much like the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 - but Christ is not preaching salvation by Works --

    [FONT=&quot]Mark 7

    7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
    8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
    9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
    10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
    11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
    12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
    13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]When Christ speaks of one of the Ten Commandments He tells us that they are the “Word of God” – the “Commandment of God” and “Moses said

    The Law accomplishes condemnation for the lost.

    [FONT=&quot]But for the sa[FONT=&quot]ved - it i[FONT=&quot]s written on the mind and heart. The very part of the New Covenant most reje[FONT=&quot]cted by some and accepted by others.


    [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Matt 19[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “
    You shall not commit murder;
    You shall not commit adultery;
    You shall not steal;
    You shall not bear false witness;
    19 Honor your father and mother;

    and
    You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”


    "what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

    [/FONT]
     
    #2 BobRyan, May 16, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2015
  3. vooks

    vooks
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    1
    BobRyan,
    Shall we then say that whatever 'Moses said' are commandments?
    Let's look at what else Mose commanded
    Matthew 8:4 (KJV) And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

    Matthew 22:24 (KJV)
    Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.




    Thank you BobRyan,
    So we know the Ten are commandments. Anything else?


    From this verse, what are commandments?
     
    #3 vooks, May 16, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2015
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Matt 22 - TWO great commandments

    Deut 6:5 - Love God with all your heart.
    Lev 19:18 - Love your neighbor as yourself.

    Acts 15 also picks up on dietary law
    Lev 17 - do not eat meat with blood in it - nothing strangled etc.
     
  5. vooks

    vooks
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    1
    The two greatest are not part of the ten. This means COMMANDMENT means more than the Ten.

    How is any of this relevant to defining COMMANDMENT?
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    They are all "commanded" in the NT - as if the text that the NT saints were using as "scripture" (the Old Testament") were the "Word of God" ... the "Commandment of God".

    Just as we saw here -

    [FONT=&quot]Mark 7

    7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
    8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
    9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
    10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
    11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
    12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
    13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]When Christ speaks of one of the Ten Commandments He tells us that they are the “Word of God” – the “Commandment of God” and “Moses said” [/FONT]
     
  7. vooks

    vooks
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    1
    BobRyan,
    Are they COMMANDMENTS or not?
    Moses also 'said' the highlighted bit. That too is a commandment?
     
    #7 vooks, May 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2015
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Jesus spoke the truth - I am with Him -- though you may oppose Him.

    But he points to the system of a theocracy when it comes to the civil penalties.

    Still in heaven- the sin is the sin - and those who commit it die for it - the 2nd death if they do not repent.

    The OT also says to stone those who commit adultery - but they lost their civil penalties when captured by another nation and they also enter into sins that they would not have gotten by with under good Kings of Israel. Jesus pardons the adulteress -- not because he wants Christians to commit adultery.

    The point remains.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. vooks

    vooks
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    1
    Are they COMMANDMENTS?
     
  10. vooks

    vooks
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    1
    Commandments of God are His instructions to man. Any instruction is a commandment where man has no choice but to obey it. Circumcision is a commandment.

    Any attempt to limit the term to the Ten Commandments is borne out of sectarian bias especially adventism for reasons known better to themselves.
     
    #10 vooks, May 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2015
  11. vooks

    vooks
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    1
    Time for some Greek
    Mark 7:9 (ESV)
    9 And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!

    Mark 10:5 (ESV)
    5 And Jesus said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.


    https://www.teknia.com/greek-dictionary/entole
     
    #11 vooks, May 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2015
  12. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,967
    Likes Received:
    371
    I understand it as a command from God (unless specifically related to OT Law). For example, Paul informs us when his instruction is not a command from God. All that God has said are commandments.

    The difference with the Law and the Ten Commandments is only that those commandments are associated with the Old Covenant, which Gentiles were never under. They were "grafted in," not "under the Law" but under the Abrahamic covenant as God's own covenant people. The Law still reflects God’s nature and moral law…but these are not commanded as such to us. They are not all inclusive, or as inclusive, as “all that God commands.”
     
  13. vooks

    vooks
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    1
    You are right,
    I only know of one sect who against all logic and sound principles of hermeneutics insist that COMMANDMENTS are just the Ten and nothing else.

    Why do they do it? Lacking any commandment in the NT to keep the sabbath not any sin of breaking the same, all they have are injunctions to keep the commandments. So if they can redefine COMMANDMENTS as just the Ten, then they have ample evidence of the sabbath command in the NT seeing it is among them! This is a survival strategy for them so don't expect them to admit it here. Their faith stands or falls on COMMANDMENTS being the Ten and nothing else.

    In a debate, they will ignore all usage of the word where it is clear that something outside the Ten is the context such as Mark 10:5 on divorce, they will then overwhelm you with all usages where the Ten are in context such as Mark 7:9, and finally they will throw the UNDEFINED usage of commandment such as 1 Corinthians 7:19

    Cultists are so predictable my friend because they have been trained to mindlessly 'proof text'. All they have are some shallow verses supporting their doctrines and they never give them much thought. Please pray for them that the light of the glorious gospel may shine on them. They are in bondage and live in perpetual fear and anxiety of perishing in hell. Cults never teach salvation by grace, it has to be earned. The 'earning' is what glues them to the cults.
     
    #13 vooks, May 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2015
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    What is a commandment - notice how Christ handles that question?

     
  15. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,967
    Likes Received:
    371
    :wavey: Just a note Bob (I'm not interested in getting into debate here, but am following your conversation).

    You crossed boundaries and audiences with the 1 Corinthians quote. I also think you accidently put the text in red as well (which would indicate to me that they went along with Christ's words when in reality these are from Paul's epistle to Corinth).
     
  16. vooks

    vooks
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    1
    Funny man,
    He was not defining a commandment and if he were, he went outside the Ten:tonofbricks:
     

Share This Page

Loading...