What is a "feminist'?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Thankful, Jul 6, 2003.

  1. Thankful

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    Feminist has been mentioned in several threads.

    What or who is a feminist?

    How do you define feminist?
     
  2. Karen

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    I am a feminist in the old-fashioned meaning.
    Which is that in U.S. civil society, women have rights that should be protected, first of which is the right to vote.

    In 1848 at Seneca Falls, NY, Elizabeth Cady Stanton presented a Declaration of Sentiments, its 18 grievances modeled after the Declaration of Independence.

    Some of the issues presented included:
    Women were unable to vote.
    Married women had no property rights.
    Women were paid a fraction of men's salaries in the same occupations.
    Most colleges and professions were completely closed to women.
    Husbands could legally beat or imprison their wives with almost no recourse.
    Divorce laws were inherently punitive to women.

    The first feminists were largely pro-life, seeing abortion as one more way that men pressured women.

    Although I am sure they don't care for the term because of more modern connotations, many BB members are feminists also in philosophy.
    Witness the number on several threads who state that the role of women in church is far more Biblically restricted than in the outside world.
    That it is fine to have a woman boss in a secular job, etc.
    In 1848,(or 1920 for that matter) our forebears did not see such a difference in the two realms.

    Karen
     
  3. Headcoveredlady

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    This is exactly my point. It seems there are many Christian ladies who would not call themselves feminist but they have many of the qualities of feminists.

    Here is my list of a feminist, (I know it is not a Bible word.) But, the principles of feminism are in the Bible and are warned against. I am not picking on any one person here. I still have feminist ways in me too.

    1) She does not teach the younger women to love their husbands.

    2) She does not teach the younger women to love their children.

    3) She does not teach the younger women to be keepers at home.

    4) She does not teach the younger women to reverence their husbands.

    5)She does not teach the younger women to be discreet, but claims they can wear anything they want.

    6)She does not wear modest apparel.

    7) She is not shamefaced.

    8) She does not learn in silence.

    9) She teaches men and usurps authority from them in church and out of it.

    10) She has lost her natural affection and is not concerned about bearing children.

    11) She is a tattler, a busybody and idle.

    12) She has no interest in marriage, not for the purpose of serving the Lord, but for self service.

    13) She does not guide her own house.

    14) She submits to no man, not even her husband.

    15) She is not gentle and quiet.

    16) She spends a lot of time in adorning her outward self all the while neglecting the inward.

    17) She is not one of Sarah's daughters.

    18) She does not understand that she was made for the man.

    19) She does not understand that the head of the woman is the man.

    20) She is unconcerned about gender distinction in clothing and appearances.

    21)She takes charge in her home and/or at church, speaking and teaching the men.

    22) When her husband suggests that they do something she asks, "Are you sure what about this other way?"

    23) She wears the attire of a harlot.

    24) Her feet do not remain at home.

    25) She is loud and stubborn.

    26) She is impudent.

    27) She may even be religious.

    These I got from the Bible. They are the opposite of what God calls women to be.


    Here is a wonderful article about ladies who are against feminism: http://www.ladiesagainstfeminism.com/artman/publish/article_6.shtml

    [ July 07, 2003, 01:30 AM: Message edited by: Headcoveredlady ]
     
  4. donnA

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    This is exactly my point. It seems there are many Christian ladies who would not call themselves feminist but they have many of the qualities of feminists.

    Here is my list of a feminist, (I know it is not a Bible word.) But, the principles of feminism are in the Bible and are warned against. I am not picking on any one person here. I still have feminist ways in me too.

    1) She does not teach the younger women to love their husbands.

    2) She does not teach the younger women to love their children.

    3) She does not teach the younger women to be keepers at home.

    4) She does not teach the younger women to reverence their husbands.

    5)She does not teach the younger women to be discreet, but claims they can wear anything they want.

    6)She does not wear modest apparel.

    7) She is not shamefaced.

    8) She does not learn in silence.

    9) She teaches men and usurps authority from them in church and out of it.

    10) She has lost her natural affection and is not concerned about bearing children.

    11) She is a tattler, a busybody and idle.

    12) She has no interest in marriage, not for the purpose of serving the Lord, but for self service.

    13) She does not guide her own house.

    14) She submits to no man, not even her husband.

    15) She is not gentle and quiet.

    16) She spends a lot of time in adorning her outward self all the while neglecting the inward.

    17) She is not one of Sarah's daughters.

    18) She does not understand that she was made for the man.

    19) She does not understand that the head of the woman is the man.

    20) She is unconcerned about gender distinction in clothing and appearances.

    21)She takes charge in her home and/or at church, speaking and teaching the men.

    22) When her husband suggests that they do something she asks, "Are you sure what about this other way?"

    23) She wears the attire of a harlot.

    24) Her feet do not remain at home.

    25) She is loud and stubborn.

    26) She is impudent.

    27) She may even be religious.

    These I got from the Bible. They are the opposite of what God calls women to be.


    Here is a wonderful article about ladies who are against feminism: http://www.ladiesagainstfeminism.com/artman/publish/article_6.shtml [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Boy you just don't quit do you. Turning around and around what the bible says so it says what you want it too.
     
  5. ScottEmerson

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    I'm a feminist. I believe that women should have the same rights as men. I also think that we should be talking more about how husbands are supposed to love their wives and submit to them, instead of merely ganging up on the women and telling them to submit. I think that if the Christian men act like a child of God and love their wives, then the rest will fall into place.

    But, I am also a feminist in that I believe that a woman should be allowed to fulfill whatever calling she may have in her life from God.

    But I believe that Christ was a feminist as well. He treated women differently than any other cultural leader in the history of the world, reaching out to them, allowing them to learn, and befriending them.
     
  6. Headcoveredlady

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    [QUOTE[/QB][/QUOTE]Boy you just don't quit do you. Turning around and around what the bible says so it says what you want it too. [/QB][/QUOTE]

    Which one of the things I listed is not Biblical and can you please give a Scripture reference to show why it is not?

    You see I have no intention of turning the Scripture around. My human nature completley agrees with feminism. I used to be one.
     
  7. Artimaeus

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    I am told to submit to God. James 4:7
    I am told to submit to certain brethren. I Cor 16:16
    I am told to submit to them that have the rule over me. Heb 13:17
    I am told to submit to every ordinance of man. I Pet 2:13
    I am told to submit to the elders. I Pet 5:5

    Where am I told to be submit to my wife? I am told to love my wife as my own body. I am told to love my wife as Christ loved the church. Is there anything negative about submitting to Christ, then there is nothing negative about a wife submitting to her husband. Feminism is the belief that men and women are the same in authority and as such are unbiblical.

    Christ was NOT a feminist. Christ is in autority over the husband and the husband is in authority over the wife. This is not feminism. Did Christ ever do anything harmful to man? No. Does a husband ever have Christ's authority to do anything harmful to a wife? No.

    I like your list, but where in the Bible did you get #22. That would effectively stop all communication between a husband and wife. I highly value my wife's intellect, insight, and common sense, and to ignore that would just be foolish.
     
  8. Headcoveredlady

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    Aritmeaus,
    From my own rebellion of Ephesians 5 and 1 Peter 3. I think the point I was trying to make was that submitting as unto the Lord would not make me question him. If he says to do something and I question him is that really submitting?

    He does listen to me and asks me to find information for him alot. But, I do not think he likes me to question his every move. Learning....

    [ July 07, 2003, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Headcoveredlady ]
     
  9. Thankful

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    These are some great answers, and what different definitions.

    The dictionary defines feminism as

    Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
    The movement organized around this belief.

    HCL's list is correct that these are things that women are not supposed to do. I totally agree, but to place a label..... :confused:

    I believe I am a feminist based on the dictionary definition, but I am not sure where HCL got her list from this definition.

    I believe that all people are created equal.

    The Old Testament clearly subjected woman to the will and protection of her husband. She was extolled for performing her important roles as wife and mother.

    The New Testament brings a different picture of woman into focus.

    Jesus raised and opened the window for women. By what He did and what He said, He elevated the status of woman.

    Paul said in Galatians 3:28: " There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    I am one of those women who fought for equality.

    I worked my way up the corporate ladder so to speak. However, I worked for a state agency, an agency that was only 10% women employees. The Women had the lowest paying jobs possible. I was involved in the hiring process. When I retired from that Agency, there were women in all areas of the Agency and if the woman was doing the same work as a man, then her pay was the same.

    I have taught the younger woman, to love and reverence their husbands and love and teach their children, to be keepers of the home.

    I am grateful to the women that worked in the factories during World War II.

    I am grateful to the women who stood up for their freedom and as a result I have the right to vote.

    I think I will stop now because I do not like labels... I cannot see how the word means nor a person be all the things that have been listed as feminist.

    You are correct HCL that the things on your list are against scripture, but not all women all like that. I would hate to meet the woman who fits that description.

    I believe that women have choices just as men do.

    They have the choice to stay at home and they have the choice to work and just because they work outside the home does not mean that they are all the things that are in HCL's list.

    Further, I do not believe that feminism, feminists, has caused all the problems that we are faced with today. Give the women some credit for being Godly, Husband loving, children loving, law abiding, gracious, humble even if they do work outside the home and believe in equal rights of women.

    Opps, I said I was going to stop...As you can tell I feel very strongly about women's rights.
     
  10. Headcoveredlady

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    True that in Gal 3 Paul said that all are equal, but that was for the purpose of salvation. Am I equal to men when it comes to lifting or endurance? No, studies have proven that men's bodies are made different from women.

    God created the woman for the man, I think that is probably the main difference in what a feminist believes and a non-feminist.

    In the New Testament women are still lifted up for being wives and mothers and gentle and quiet. It is only the feminist movement that has sought to diminish this.

    I do not think any one woman has all of does all of the things I listed, (well maybe some do). But, yes they are against Scripture. But, I do believe that feminism, especially the modern version promotes much of this type of behavior that I listed.


    This is not meant to offend you, but what about climbing the corporate ladder brought glory to God? Now that you fought for equal pay and got it what did that do to help younger women love their husbands, love their children and keep their homes?

    Please understand I am not trying to hurt you, but I do not see how climbing the corporate ladder and demanding more pay is Biblical for a woman.
     
  11. ColoradoFB

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    If one defines feminist as one who believes in full equality of the sexes, then count me in!

    If it means one who believes that women are superior to men, count me out.

    I think it is full time we pass the Equal Rights Amendment in the US. Long overdue. What could possibly be objectionable to these simple words:

    Section 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.
    Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
    Section 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date of ratification.
     
  12. Thankful

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    You don't have to be concerned about offending me or hurting me. I was saved fifty-six years ago and I have tried to follow God's Will in all areas of my life. God is the one that I need to please.

    As to what did I do, I have always tried to set a Christian example in whatever area that I am in. It was necessary for me to work to help support my family and I will not go into why and I will not complain. God uses us where He plants us.

    And I for one will not bash other women who find it necessary to work outside the home.

    As to glorifying God by climbing the corporate ladder, I think that it glorified God that a Christian Woman can be a Christian in the workplace.
     
  13. ColoradoFB

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    Thankful,

    What a terrific and well thought out response! [​IMG]
     
  14. I Am Blessed 24

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  15. I Am Blessed 24

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    I have been doing a lot of meditating on the phrase "keepers at home". I believe this means to be a keeper of your home when you are at home. I believe it means to have your house in order.

    I was widowed at the age of 27 and had four children to raise. I worked outside the home to feed, house, and clothe them. When I was home, I was a 'keeper at home'. My house was in order. I don't think that made me a feminist or out of the will of God. I believe I would have been MORE out of the will of God had I stayed home and lived on welfare.

    If wanting to be paid the same amount of money for doing the same job that a man does...then maybe I am a feminist.

    Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape.

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  16. Headcoveredlady

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    Her feet do not remain at home is from Proverbs 7.

    The Proverbs 7 woman is the opposite of a godly woman in my opinion. I like to meditate on Proverbs 7 myself at times and see if there be any similarities with my own self to her.

    I do not think that when you were widowed you became a feminist because of what you needed to do. I know that there are cases when women need to work.

    I said I was not picking on anyone. And I sincerely meant that. I simply went through Scripture last night on the verses about women and wrote what I felt led to write.

    I did admit that I have some of these tendencies myself.
     
  17. Artimaeus

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  18. Headcoveredlady

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    Excellent way to explain it Artimeaus. [​IMG]
     
  19. I Am Blessed 24

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    Are not both you and your wife Christians? If so, then why would it not be applicable? :confused:
     
  20. hsmom3

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    Hi Sue, I was just wondering why you felt it was a sin if you used welfare? The churches used to be the ones to help widows, but now let welfare do it. :(

    hsmom3
     

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