What is a 'hardshell' Baptist?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Frogman, Sep 10, 2003.

  1. Frogman

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    Can someone tell me what a hardshell Baptist is?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  2. Bro. James Reed

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    Me. :D


    And every other Primitive Baptist on the board. [​IMG]
     
  3. Hardsheller

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    James is technically right.

    I chose the name "Hardsheller" because of my Calvinistic Tendencies. Also in honor of my uncle who considered himself a "hardshell" baptist even though he was baptized by a Southern Baptist Church.
     
  4. Doubting Thomas

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    But why "hardshell"? Why not "reformed"? What is the association of "hardshell" with Calvinism?
     
  5. Frogman

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    Thanks Bro. James and Hardsheller. I wasn't that specific I know, but I was looking for a kind of definition.

    I am also on a PB forum and I just don't understand the term 'hardshell'. My dad calls me a hardshell Baptist and tells everyone that I am, even though I am in a Missionary Baptist Church.

    Does the term pertain to the fact that PB's believe that some of the elect will not make a profession of faith?

    I am not asking this in an effort to discuss or debate the beliefs of Primitive Baptists, but I am interested in knowing the history of the term. I guess I should have put my post in the Baptist History forum...huh?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  6. tyndale1946

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    Here is something I have heard all my life handed down by other PB's... The word hardshell was not used by PB's because we are hard headed but by our enemies who saw us as being stubborn and hardheaded to change... We wouldn't go the way of other beliefs to go out and save the world. We believe Christ did it ALL and there is nothing any Man can do to earn his eternal salvation and he will SAVE all his children. In Reference see the Baptist Split of 1832 in Baptist History where the PB's split from the missionaries!

    The term was not hardshell to begin with but Hardshall... As the PB's emphasized Matthew 1:21 in the angels declaration to Joseph in a dream in regards to the condition of his betrothed Mary... And she SHALL bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name "JESUS" for he SHALL save his people from their sins.

    Brother James and Harsheller are partly right but being 3rd generation PB and maybe further than that this is the story I have heard all my life. Any of you other PB's heard that one in your part of the country. Since we believe in Amazing Grace and Jesus Christ is our ALL in ALL we are hard on our shalls and we stand by it steadfast until our dying breath... Our Eternal Salvation is ALL of Christ and none of Man!... And that is how we teach it and preach it no matter what other Baptist say! [​IMG] [​IMG] ... Brother Glen The Primitive Baptist :D

    [ September 10, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  7. dianetavegia

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    Well then count me a soft shell! Not a Calvinist! LOL BTW... Softshell pecans are much more in demand round here. [​IMG]

    Diane
     
  8. tyndale1946

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    Diane... NEVER call a PB a Calvinist... We are not! :eek: ... Though we do adopt TULIP our interpretations of some of the points are very different then our Calvinist brethren... I thought I would clarify that so you would know!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  9. dianetavegia

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    Thanks Bro. Glen, I was confused by Hardsheller's post saying....
    Labels are SO confusing!

    Diane :eek:
     
  10. tyndale1946

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    Doubting Thomas... PB's are not Calvinist or Reformed... All believe in Gospel Regeneration we believe in Spiritual Regeneration!... We are HARD on our SHALLS and believe it without reservation [​IMG] Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  11. tyndale1946

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    Hardsheller... Unless you are a PB and believe in Spiritual Regeneration you maybe be a hardshell but NEVER a "HARDSHALL" ... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  12. Hardsheller

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    My Paternal Great Grandmother was a Primitive Baptist and my uncle and mother attended a Primitive Baptist Church as a child.

    I am a Southern Baptist and don't ever foresee that changing.

    P.S. There are plenty of "Calvinists" in the SBC so I have plenty of company.
     
  13. Johnv

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    If you're Baptist and live in the Seychelles, are you a Seychelle Baptist? [​IMG]
     
  14. tyndale1946

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    Well Hardshell it sounds like you do come from good stock... PB in the genes... Huuuuuummmmmmm!... SBC?... Uhuh!... Brother Glen ;)
     
  15. Frogman

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    Thanks everyone for taking time to post on this. I suspected it was related to Spiritual vs. Gospel Regeneration but wasn't sure so I asked :D

    In essence I am a hard shall (er) also, though I am in a missionary Baptist church which is Calvinistic meaning they believe and stand on Gospel regeneration only. This is due from a supposed or suspected transition from the time of the Gospel being preached to the Jews and the door being opened to the Gentiles.

    The reason I reject the Gospel regenerationist belief is simply because I believe the Gospel is a means to convert the already believer and not to convert the lost . I believe this because I believe the lost are incapable of being converted and must be quickened. This occurs only by the Holy Spirit and then conversion to the Gospel is made possible once the regenerated person hears it preached.

    Pray for me and my family. We are experiencing some difficulties in our church home due to this belief of mine.

    Hardsheller, I cannot say confidently that I see no changes in my future.

    God Bless All
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]

    BTW, my dad also calls me a flower child, hence the addition of the flower to my signature. :eek:
     
  16. Bro. James Reed

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    Ding, ding, ding. We have a Primitive Baptist here! [​IMG]

    I don't know that I would call my feable attempts preaching, but I will say that I spoke on this very thing several weeks ago.

    Many people get regeneration and conversion confused one with the other. In my opinion, the best example of regeneration coming from God alone, followed by preaching of the gospel and conversion by man, is in Acts 9 regarding Saul on the road to Damascus.

    Acts 9:
    4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
    5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
    6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
    7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
    8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
    9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
    10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
    11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
    12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
    13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
    14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
    15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
    16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
    17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
    18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

    BTW, Bro. Glen is correct in his definition of hardshell. I knew this example, but I wasn't sure if that's what you wanted. As long as I live, I will always, come rain, sleet, snow, or Alzheimer's, remember the angel speaking to Mary saying, "...thou shalt call his name Jesus for he SHALL save his people from their sins."

    I love that verse. It should give all of us comfort to know that the promise of salvation was made before Jesus was born, and the work of salvation was concluded on the cross when Christ said "It is finished" and gave up the ghost. What a beautiful, yet humbling thought. To think that he loved me so much that he would lay down his life for my sins. I can not even fathom that kind of love.

    God Bless you and your family Bro. Dallas. I will continue praying that the Lord will ease your self-described difficulties.

    Bro. James [​IMG]
     
  17. IfbReformer

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    For any hardsheller or PB here:

    I have a few questions:

    Let me say first that these are simply for informational sake and not to start debate. I am genuinely curious. Having said that, after pondering your answers I may start other threads asking you about the particulars of your answers.

    What is the difference between Spiritual Regeneration and Gospel Regeneration?

    You say believe in the TULIP principles, but you define them differently. Give me some examples of this.

    What kind of evangelism do you practice and believe in? Please give examples of what your church does in this area.

    Are most PB churches or hardshell churches KJV only?(the ones of I know of around my area are)

    Are most PBs Baptist Briders?

    Do PBs or Hardshellers all only have one service a week or do you have others?

    Thanks

    IFBReformer
     
  18. Gunther

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    PBs, do you also include this "shall" in your list of "shalls"?

    Romans 10:14-17
    14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
    16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
    17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    Seriously now.
     
  19. Frogman

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    I am not a 'fully' bloomed PB, but I can answer the question regarding Romans 10 [at least IMHO].

    Christ is the Word of God. A believer is indwelled by the Holy Spirit , which is the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God. This occurs not because someone heard the Gospel.

    Example:

    Did Cornelius receive eternal salvation as a result of the words Peter spoke to him, or was he really already a believer but needed the Gospel to 'convert' him to belief in the fulfillment of the Messiah prophecies? Why did he send for Peter? If he, as all men are, was lost and dead in trepasses and sins, what prompted him to send for Peter?

    Next, Romans 10.14 says how shall they call upon him in whom they have not believed and how shall they believe without a preacher?

    The Ethiopian eunich and Philip answer this question. What caused the Ethiopian to study the word of God? What did Philip ask him? How did he respond? Was any of this discourse in view of his eternal salvation?

    Romans 10 is not the problem so many make it to be; when divided rightly it speaks of those believing hearing the Gospel and being converted. It speaks of timely salvation and not of eternal.

    Eternal salvation is the realm of the Godhead and delegated to Christ to fulfill the covenant of works and redeem the elect by His blood, to the Holy Spirit to quicken the elect and draw them to God, also to take of that which belongs to Christ and teach the elect of Him.

    Such difficulty lies in confusing what is the work of the Godhead and what is given to man. The heart of the matter will be found in erroneously accepting the 'great' commission of the church.

    And in fact this would not be error were the words of scripture adhered to. Christ said to make disciples---students---and baptize them---he did not commission anyone to regulate eternal salvation by any guidelines at all.

    God Bless All
    Bro. Dallas Eaton [​IMG]
     
  20. Frogman

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    If viewed for what they mean to groups of people the Gospel regenerationist believes folks cannot be saved apart from hearing the preached Gospel.

    Spiritual regenerationists believe otherwise, the Gospel is preached to the elect and they are quickened {all this is accomplished by the direct involvement of the Holy Spirit and not limited to a man 'preacher' preaching the word.}

    Some missionaries believe the Spirit is not always dealing with individuals and at this time the message preached is one of need for the saved in the church. This means almost the same as the Spiritual regenerationist but the missionary will not relinquish the thought the Spirit does not now use men [preaching as a means].

    The differences can be very pronounced or very subtle, depending on how you believe concerning what is styled to be the commission of the church.

    I have tried to show to my local church the subtle differences and the truth concerning what they profess to believe [that is that without the Spirit dealing in the heart of the lost the preached word is not effectual]; however, this is viewed as an attack on the beloved commission of the church....so it is the ball bounces.

    God Bless
    bro. Dallas Eaton
     

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