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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by mandym, Sep 23, 2011.
Can the elect choose to reject Christ?
No, as those whom the Lord elects unto eternal life in jesus WILL indeed confirm their calling/election by placing faith in Christ!
Flip side of the natural sinner state...
Free will decision always will reject Christ
Election allows/provides that the sinner will always accept and become a saint!
So you've just confirmed that the elect and non-elect have no choice in the matter.
Do you have scripture for this specifically?
Yes.....until The Spirit saves them.....then no they cannot
Prior to Holy Spirit intervention, the "elect", just like all men everywhere, have already chosen to reject God.
When God, Holy Spirit, intervenes, they will choose Christ for salvation.
peace to youraying:
Well, a word, "elect" is a key problem. If the elect rejects Christ, what about God knowing his heart if he is a real elect or not?
How can you choose to reject what you do not know?
He won't answer with scripture, he'll just spout more Calvinist doctrine followed by an exclamation point!
JF seems to believe if you repeat a falsehood long enough, somehow it becomes truth!
And yes, my exclamation points here are intentional!
Romans 1:19 "Because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them." (20)...so that they are without excuse"
peace to youraying:
(deleted. . .)
I know "they use the whole of scripture" there for they cannot answer with scripture. You just have to read the whole thing. Jesus never once said such a thing. Paul never once said such a thing. Peter never once said such a thing. James never once said such a thing. Eisegesis is a difficult thing to defend.
Can the elect reject salvation? This question presupposes the Calvinist false doctrine that individuals are chosen before creation, and thus live as "elected but not yet saved" until some time during their lives where "Irresistible Grace" alters them so they "willingly" come to Christ. Total Twaddle.
According to 1 Peter 1:3-5, once a person is elected, chosen, they are saved without delay, and God Almighty protects their faith such that they will receive their inheritance of eternal life. So the answer is no, individuals chosen for salvation cannot reject salvation, because they are saved with their faith protected.
But to return to the assertions embedded in the question:
1) There are no individuals "elected for salvation" that are not already in Christ, born anew, and predestined to the resurrection to life."
2) Ephesians 1:4 does not say whether the election in Him before the foundation of the world was corporate or individual. But James 2:5 clearly says God chooses individuals who are poor in the eyes of the world, rich in faith, and heirs of the promise given to those who love God. Therefore Ephesians 1:4 must refer to our corporate election.
These don't know because they are not elect. Come on Don, follow more closely.
I believe the scripture teaches that all elect will be saved.
John 6:37, Jesus speaking: "All that the Father giveth me WILL come to me...."
I do not believe that God saves the elect independently of means. Such as, "the foolishness of preaching... (I Cor 1:21).
Or, "how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach except they be sent?" (Romans 10:14-15).
Election includes the means God uses to bring them to eventual salvation.
By the way, election is from eternity. To hold otherwise is to destroy Gods immutability.
And I believe to hold to election being predestined from eternity makes God the creator of evil and author of sin.
I believe the whole of the word shows election. Examples Adam,
Noah, But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. God called Noah therefore Noah walked with God.
Abraham. Lets say there were three million people in the world when God called Abram. Grew up in idol worship. May or may not have known Noah. Did he obey God because of some deep indwelt feeling called faith or did he believe God because he was a sheep of God able to believe. Why just one sheep out of three million, my guess as to number of people. The number really doesn't matter. Wasn't the substance of things hoped for and evidence of things not seen, the seed of the woman that was to come.
Is election by faith?
Just what does it mean in Gal 3:23 where it says before the faith came and 3:25 after the faith came? Is this the, the faith spoken of in Eph 2:8
through which salvation will come by grace?
Through the word God is doing the calling. Election.
You are correct of course:thumbs::thumbs:
This is a tragic view....sorry to hear of it.You repeat this idea which is a clear falsehood....