What is a Unregenerate Spirit?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    We have Baptists on this forum that believe at death the Old Testament saints, that is their "spirits" went to hades and had to wait there until the cross in order to be regenerated. That means while their "spirits" were in their bodies during their life time they were in an unregenerate state - unregenerate spirits. That means when their bodies died that unregenerate spirit descended into hades to wait. Remember, Jesus told Nicodemus what is born of Spirit "is spirit" and so any spirit not born of the Spirit is an unregenerate spirit.

    Now, exactly what is an unregenerate spirit? Isn't that what lost people have today? Unregenerated spirits in their bodies? Isn't that what the Ephesians were prior to being quickened or born of the Spirit (Eph.2:1,5)?

    Paul calls the unregenerate spirit "dead in tresspasses and in sins." Paul described the condition of an unregenerate spirit in Ephesians 4:18-19 and in Romans 8:7-8. It is a spirit in your body that is at enmity with God and not subject to his authority. It is a spirit that loves darkness more than light. It is a spirit that is alienated from the life of God. It is a spirit bound by sin and under the dominion of Satan (Eph.2:2-3).

    Now, does that kind of spirit characterize what we find in the bodies of Abraham, Job, David, Daniel, Joshua, Caleb,etc. while they were physically alive? Is that the kind of spirit that loves God, walks with God, obeys God?

    Now, these Baptists have a doctrine to defend, and scriptures they interpret to defend this doctrine. But really, does not even an ounce of common sense make such a theory completely and utterly laughable? What happens when just plain common sense exposes a carefully crafted doctrine and carefully crafted interpretations of a few Bible passages? What happens? I will tell you what happens, they simply close their eyes, stick their fingers and their ears and say "But the Bible says..." when it says no such thing, it is only made to say what they want it to say and the proof is that such interpretations won't even stand up to common sense.
     
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    Romans 8:6-8. 'For to be carnally [ie. 'fleshly.' the opposite of spiritual] minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who re in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.' Was the mind of Abraham enmity against God? As we read the Psalms, do we find that David's mind was enmity against God? Of course not! The O.T. saints possessed the Spirit just as we do.

    Numbers 27:18. '....."Take Joshua the son of Nun with you, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him.'"
    Nehemiah 9:30. 'Yet for many years you had patience with them, and testified against them by Your Holy Spirit in Your prophets.'
    1 Peter 1:11. '......Searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.'
     
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  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Jeshua1, Van and Darrell all take this same position but are strangely silent. Can they provide reasonable answers for these posts, without changing the subject, without ridicule or innuendo's, without arguments based on circular reasoning (e.g. this can be true because my interpretation of the texts in this debate deny it)?
     
  4. HankD

    HankD
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    Biblicist - do you mean OT saints were regenerate? I agree.

    However I believe (opinion) that there were differences in the ministry of the Holy Spirit in their lives and ours.

    The OT word "Sheol" is poorly translated as "hell" IMO.
    It simply means the grave, the hole or tomb into which the body is placed after death.

    The bodies of the OT saints went into that hole, but the spirits of the OT saints went to be with the LORD at death.

    Apparently Enoch and Elijah went there in bodily form as well.


    HankD
     
  5. percho

    percho
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    What do you mean, "bodily form"?
     
  6. HankD

    HankD
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    I meant they went to "heaven" in bodily form.

    I did use the word "apparently" meaning there may be information not revealed.

    Enoch - might be questionable but apparently Elijah went up bodily into heaven.

    2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.


    HankD
     
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    I agree partly with you. The term sheol refers to the place of THE DEAD. The Bible speaks of "lowest" sheol and the "mouth" or upper sheol. I believe both lost and saved have their physical DEAD bodies placed in upper sheol. So in this sense the saints go to sheol. However, the saint has been redeemed from "lowest" sheol which is the place of the departed DEAD spirits.
     
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    I don't Old Testament saints in general when to heaven in bodily form but went to heaven as regenerated spirits just like we do. For example the tombs of David and other OT saints are still here today and Peter makes it clear that his body did not go to heaven (Acts 2). Job also did not go to heaven bodily as he expected his body to return to dust (Acts 19). David anticipated going to heaven at death (Psa. 73). I believe the only difference in the work of the Holy Spirit then that is different now is only extent. Now the Spirit is indwelling "all flesh" (anarthous construct - all classes, kinds) whereas prior to Pentecost the redemptive work of the Spirit was PRIMARILY restricted to one ethnic class - Jews.
     

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