What is fundamentalism ?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by following-Him, Nov 13, 2004.

  1. following-Him

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    I would be interested in your views. I hope it will be an interesting thread.

    God Bless

    Sheila
     
  2. Ed Edwards

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    The fundamentals of traditional fundamentalism:

    1. the inspiration and infallibility of scripture
    2. the deity of Christ (including His virgin birth)
    3. the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death
    4. the literal resurrrection of Christ from the dead
    5. the literal return of Christ in the Second Advent

    The fundamentals of ne-wage-fundamentalism:

    1. Anti-Bible (KJBO = King James Bible Only)
    2. Anti-education
    3. Anti-success
    4. Anti-female
    5. Anti-alien

    Typical statements of the ne-wage-fundamentalist called
    by the world "fundies":

    1. The KJB replaces the origial language manuscripts
    as being God's word
    2. Calling "seminary": "cemetery"
    3. Billy Grahmn sold out to the Devil
    4. woman, kneel before your man
    5. Jews killed Christ
     
  3. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Typical statements of the ne-wage-fundamentalist called
    by the world "fundies":


    1. The KJB replaces the origial language manuscripts
    as being God's word
    2. Calling "seminary": "cemetery"
    3. Billy Grahmn sold out to the Devil
    4. woman, kneel before your man
    5. Jews killed Christ
    --------------------------------------------------


    First of all, the question was what is fundamentalism, not what is NOT FUNDAMENTALISM in your opinion. The rest of your post is pure opinion Ed. And you have delegated fundamentalists as new age, which is not at all true. Do you understand what New age is? I do not think you do, as is obvious by your opinions above.


    To clarify the truth of the above statements:

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    1. The KJB replaces the origial language manuscripts as being God's word
    --------------------------------------------------

    The scriptures in tHe KJB mirror the orignional languages perfectly in our English language.


    --------------------------------------------------
    2. Calling "seminary": "cemetery"
    --------------------------------------------------

    This one is one's own opinion, but my opinion with the results/fruits that these seminaries produce would be an accurate opinion.


    --------------------------------------------------
    3. Billy Grahmn sold out to the Devil
    --------------------------------------------------

    This is true, as Billy Graham is buddy buddy with the Pope. Try reading the book "The Hidden Truth about Billy Graham and friends". This shows not only his relationship with the Pope, and his ecumenical stance, but also his ties with freemasonry.

    --------------------------------------------------
    4. woman, kneel before your man
    --------------------------------------------------


    The Bible says for the wife to be in willing subjection to her husband, and the husband to love and respect his wife. It says nothing about kneeling before him, nor worshipping him, but being in subjection to his authority as the husband is representative of Jesus Christ in the family. And the wife is representative of the church in the family. This is scriptural and FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH.

    --------------------------------------------------
    5. Jews killed Christ
    --------------------------------------------------


    They sure did. They conspired to have him put to death, and then CHOSE him to be crucified, and let a murderer go free. Pontious Pilate let the crowd decide. Their choice was Jesus Christ as they cried out "crucify him, crucify him!". Jesus then said upon the cross, Father, forgive THEM, for they know not what they do. This is FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH.


    To not believe some of these things that are biblically fundamental, is not being fundamental, and actually having or holding to apostate views, CONTRARY to scriptural and fundamental truths.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  4. Phillip

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    Oh, so Word-for-Word perfection of the KJV must be something that is "fundamental" truth, because it certainly isn't scriptural truth.

    You have YET to prove your KJVo Word-For-Word perfect Bible with scripture.

    Oh, by the way, I bought a 1611 replica Bible this week and have been reading through it. Fascinating.....after all we all know it IS the Word-Of-God; by the way Michelle, is it 100% word for word accurate or did it take some work before it got to the Oxford edition you carry?
     
  5. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    The fundamentals of traditional fundamentalism:

    1. the inspiration and infallibility of scripture
    2. the deity of Christ (including His virgin birth)
    3. the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death
    4. the literal resurrrection of Christ from the dead
    5. the literal return of Christ in the Second Advent
    --------------------------------------------------


    Amen!!! to the above truths Ed.


    --------------------------------------------------
    The fundamentals of ne-wage-fundamentalism:

    1. Anti-Bible (KJBO = King James Bible Only)
    2. Anti-education
    3. Anti-success
    4. Anti-female
    5. Anti-alien
    --------------------------------------------------


    Now you have gone and ruined the truth with your opinions Ed. These above are all false. It also shows you have no understanding of what the beliefs of New Age is, nor what fundamentalism is.
    The following are explanations of your stated opinons of new age fundamentalism which is only your opinion.

    --------------------------------------------------
    The fundamentals of ne-wage-fundamentalism:
    --------------------------------------------------

    --------------------------------------------------
    1. Anti-Bible (KJBO = King James Bible Only)
    --------------------------------------------------

    This is wrong, not only in the statement itself, but diametrically opposed to the truth. One cannot believe the scriptures in our own language are the infallible and inerrant word of God and be anti-bible at the same time. IN fact this shows the opposite of this and show those who believe this are NOT ANTI-BIBLE, but PRO-BIBLE. Those who believe this and this truth only help to manifest those of the opposite view to this, and expose those that are the true anti-bible believers.

    --------------------------------------------------
    2. Anti-education
    --------------------------------------------------


    Depends upon how you look at it Ed. If one takes the scholarly approach above that or contrary to scriptural truth and church history in light of the scriptures, this shows approval and condoning of things contrary to the truth, and at the expense of truth, and call it what you will. True wisdom comes from God, and the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Anything contrary to the truth of God revealed in the scriptures, is actually anti-education, and manifest the dumb sheep following the wrong shepard to those dumb sheep who follow the good shepard.

    --------------------------------------------------
    3. Anti-success
    --------------------------------------------------


    Again, depends upon what one considers success. Is it scriptural success you are talking about, or worldly success? If the latter, pay close attention to the biblical truth Ed, the words of our Saviour himself:


    Matt. 6

    19. Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
    20. But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
    21. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


    Matt. 19

    23. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    24. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


    1 Tim. 6

    5. Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
    6. But godliness with contentment is great gain.
    7. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
    8. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
    9. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
    10. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
    11. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
    12. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.


    --------------------------------------------------

    4. Anti-female
    --------------------------------------------------


    Not anti-female, Ed, but anti feminist. The feminist movement is evil and not at all godly. Woman are to be in willing subjection to her husbands authority in the family. Just look at the fruits of the feminists and thier movement. Since the advent of feminst movements, divorces increased, spousel abuse and murder increased, abortions increased, woman in authority over men, etc. It has produced nothing but anti-God and anti-biblical fruits.


    --------------------------------------------------
    5. Anti-alien
    --------------------------------------------------


    Don't know where you pulled this one out of Ed, but it is very strange. Just because a christian does not believe that fallen angels are appearing as aliens does not make them anti-fundamental, nor does it make them New Age fundamentalists. New Age fundamentalism does not exist Ed, but only in your own mind and based solely upon your own opinions and lack of spiritual discernment.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  6. Phillip

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    Amen, Ed, PREACH ON, Brother! Let's see if Michelle will give me a direct answer to my question. If I were to be a wagering man, I would say "not". What's your guess?
     
  7. russell55

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    I agree with Ed, with one little correction These are the historical fundamentals:

    1. the inspiration and infallibility of scripture in the original documents.
    2. the deity of Christ (including His virgin birth)
    3. the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death
    4. the literal resurrrection of Christ from the dead
    5. the literal return of Christ in the Second Advent

    Fundamentalists also believe in separation from those who don't hold to these fundmentals.

    There are also 14 points that were developed after these five--that flesh them out a bit more--but I can't find a list.
     
  8. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Oh, so Word-for-Word perfection of the KJV must be something that is "fundamental" truth, because it certainly isn't scriptural truth.

    --------------------------------------------------


    Word for Word perfection of God's word in our language. This has nothing to do with the label placed upon it that many of you focus upon, rather than the scriptures within.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  9. Phillip

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    Ed, I am writing this to console you on your lack of "spiritual discernment". [​IMG]

    I am so sorry to hear that you have developed this condition and I pray that you will get better soon. [​IMG]

    Please, do not get close to your family until this condition has completely cleared up, I understand it is quite contageous. :eek:

    The cure is to take your Holman Bible and read the Gospel of John. You will begin to feel better almost instantly when you start immediate intake of the Word-of-God.! [​IMG]

    We love you Ed and don't want to loose you, would you please start taking the cure immediately? ;)
     
  10. Phillip

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    And what label might that be, Michelle?

    I will modify my other question, will you please answer it?

    I ask it again (modified): Is my KJV 1611 Word-for-word perfect in the ENGLISH language?
     
  11. Phillip

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    And what label might that be, Michelle?

    I will modify my other question, will you please answer it?

    I ask it again (modified): Is my KJV 1611 Word-for-word perfect in the ENGLISH language?
     
  12. michelle

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    .....which is also fundamental to our faith. God's word says that man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD. (Deut.8:3, Psalm 12, Matt.4:4, Luke 4:4)


    Where is your scriptural support for the contrary? ARe you going to answer my question to which you have not yet answered?


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  13. russell55

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    This is NOT a fundamentalist belief. The originators of the fundamentals that define fundamentalism did not believe that we can be assured of word for word perfection in our language. Their statements all say that inerrancy applies to the autographs. And many of them used the ASV.

    Those who make claims to word for word perfection in their own language are not following in the tradition of fundamentalism, but in some new tradition.

    It's my personal opinion that they should find their own new name and not use it to describe something that the originators of the movement would be appalled at.
     
  14. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    I am so sorry to hear that you have developed this condition and I pray that you will get better soon.

    --------------------------------------------------


    Yes, Phillip. I also agree, and continue to keep all of us, including myself in prayer concerning this.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  15. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Please, do not get close to your family until this condition has completely cleared up, I understand it is quite contageous
    --------------------------------------------------


    He lacks, and many others here expose their lack of spiritual discernment in THIS ISSUE. This was my point. And yes, it could cause a rippling effect to those around him, that he and as well as all of us will have to account for some day. As Jesus said, a little leaven will leaveneth the whole lump of dough, and if the blind follow the blind, they both will fall into the ditch, and let no man decieve you by any means.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  16. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    We love you Ed and don't want to loose you, would you please start taking the cure immediately?
    --------------------------------------------------


    Yes, most definately we all love Ed. I also love Ed tremendously as my brother in Christ, and this is why I share with him the truth.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  17. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    And what label might that be, Michelle?

    --------------------------------------------------


    The name or label of "KING JAMES BIBLE".


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  18. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    This is NOT a fundamentalist belief. The originators of the fundamentals that define fundamentalism did not believe that we can be assured of word for word perfection in our language. Their statements all say that inerrancy applies to the autographs. And many of them used the ASV.

    --------------------------------------------------


    If this is true, then how can then anyone be absolutely sure that the Bible in thier own language is free from error, and therefore their sole authority in all matters of faith and practice? You are wrong. Christians have ALWAYS believed the scriptures in their own langauge were God's word without error and perfect.


    --------------------------------------------------
    did not believe that we can be assured of word for word perfection in our language.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Prove it.


    --------------------------------------------------
    Those who make claims to word for word perfection in their own language are not following in the tradition of fundamentalism, but in some new tradition.
    --------------------------------------------------


    We are not commanded by God to follow the commandments and doctrines of men, but of God. This is a fundamental truth in the scriptures, that I have provided to you in this very thread. Please show me the scriptures that say contrary to this and to show this doctrine of men that you follow and call fundamental, can and is supported with scripture? Can you? I do not think you can. God has said the opposite, as I have shown you.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  19. Ed Edwards

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    Acts 26:14b (KJV1769):

    ... why persecutest thou me? it is hard
    for thee to kick against the pricks.

    Michelle: "It also shows you have no understanding of what
    the beliefs of New Age is, nor what fundamentalism is."

    Actually it shows you have no idea what i said.
    Do you know that
    "fundamentalist" is NOT equal to
    "ne-wage-fundamentalist" -- they are two different things?
    "Fundamentalist" is not new age & i are one
    "ne-wage-fundamentalist" is new age.
    They are two different things as described.
    You made them the same, not me.

    The bit puppy yelps the loudest.
     
  20. gb93433

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    First of all, the question was what is fundamentalism, not what is NOT FUNDAMENTALISM in your opinion. The rest of your post is pure opinion Ed. And you have delegated fundamentalists as new age, which is not at all true. Do you understand what New age is? I do not think you do, as is obvious by your opinions above.

    To clarify the truth of the above statements:

    --------------------------------------------------
    1. The KJB replaces the origial language manuscripts as being God's word
    --------------------------------------------------
    The scriptures in tHe KJB mirror the orignional languages perfectly in our English language?

    If it is such a direct mirror, what do you do with the words that cannot be translated into English from the Greek and Hebrew.

    --------------------------------------------------
    2. Calling "seminary": "cemetery"
    --------------------------------------------------

    This one is one's own opinion, but my opinion with the results/fruits that these seminaries produce would be an accurate opinion.

    You are only partially right. That kind of like lumping every woman as a murderer just because one woman is in jail for murder. We can spend our time in critical review of others or we can spend our life discipling others.

    Certainly you would not want to condemn yourself by your own words. So I ask are you currently discipling someone? Are you showing others how it’s done?

    What is your fruit like?



    --------------------------------------------------
    3. Billy Grahmn sold out to the Devil
    --------------------------------------------------

    This is true, as Billy Graham is buddy buddy with the Pope. Try reading the book "The Hidden Truth about Billy Graham and friends". This shows not only his relationship with the Pope, and his ecumenical stance, but also his ties with freemasonry.

    How does the fruit of Billy Graham compare to the fruit of his critics? Some of the critics I read who wrote what you did, have already been proven to be liars on the BB. Men such as David Cloud.

    Billy Graham is an evangelist not a pastor. He is there to do evangelism not pastor people.
     

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