What is going on at M-Fuge

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Paladin, Aug 12, 2005.

  1. Paladin

    Paladin
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  2. TexasSky

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    If it is accurate, its disturbing.

    There seems to be some debate in the blog about the accuracy of the information though.
     
  3. James_Newman

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    "The mind is the great enemy."
    - Aleister Crowley, Magick, p.29

    "The formalized beginning and end of the (satanic) ceremony acts as a dogmatic, anti- intellectual device... "
    - The Satanic Bible

    "The no-mind not thinks no-thoughts about nothings."
    - Buddha

    "There is no need, therefore to understand the language of the mantra, nor is there any need for mental speculation nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting the mahamantra. It is automatic coming from the spiritual platform.."
    - A.C. Bhaktivedanta
     
  4. USN2Pulpit

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    Before all of you actually buy into the so-called "evil SBC" theories, take this into account: I'm a veteran of many 'Fuge events, and I have never - read this: "NEVER" - heard of, witnessed, or been a part of anything even remotely close to what this article speaks of. And I was at a 'Fuge event during the year in question, when this was supposedly "scripted," or as the article somewhat misleadingly states, "from the lifeway outline that every M-fuge preacher must follow."

    I know there are many who don't like the SBC for various reasons. If this was actually scripted, I'm shocked - but I'm happy that is was pulled from the curriculum. Leadership would have done the right thing to pull it - as we all know.

    [ August 12, 2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: USN2Pulpit ]
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

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    This is why I wrote an e-mail to M-Fuge and asked them if they knew anything about this. Sometimes, it is good to get both sides of the story first hand before we make a judgement. Why don't we wait a while and see if they happen to respond?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. USN2Pulpit

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    good idea...
     
  7. JohnAMac

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    There are some things in the report about the youth pastor that are in error, and I wonder if that is an indication of the credibility of the story, or just a lack of thoroughness in making sure the presentation is correct. The school in Charleston that hosts the M-Fuge event is Charleston Southern University, not Southern Charleston University. Others have pointed out that the youth pastor who made the original statement was not from South Carolina, but from Tennessee.

    I don't see anything here that is particularly un-Christian or deliberately intended to lead the kids astray. The focus was maintained on God, not "a god". The word the kids were instructed to use was one that they chose themselves, and which they associated with a connection to God. It sounds similar to prayer sessions in Pentecostal or Charismatic circles, where the repetition of words is designed to "lead" one to "speak in tongues" or where there is an emphasis on coming to a point of being "slain" in the spirit.

    Is there a suggestion here in the criticism that God couldn't or wouldn't get involved in prayers directed toward him, made by believers in Christ, because he didn't care for the method of prayer they were using?

    As a side note, I accompanied our church youth to M-Fuge in Nashville on two occasions. It's not a bad program, though for our particular group, the tracks, Bible studies and worship times seemed geared at junior high kids and weren't as "age appropriate" for high school. I think the worship in particular missed the mark completely, and was way more focused on being entertaining and "fun" than on leading the congregation to a real encounter with God. I really did like the hands-on approach to missions, though several of my kids said they really didn't accomplish much during the week because of a lack of planning and preparation at the specific places where they went to work.

    Last summer, we discovered "World Changers," which is an initiative of the North American Mission Board of the SBC. You don't have to be an SBC church to participate, at the construction projects, the mission work is an all day event, the preparation was remarkably organized and, at least at the places we have gone, the worship leaders did an outstanding job of leading the kids to genuine, Christ-centered worship of God.
    The two years we have gone to it have had a lasting spiritual impact on our youth ministry, and on the whole church.

    Although our church is not SBC, we do rely on materials published by Lifeway, and are involved in some events that the various SBC entities conduct. I've always felt that they were straighforward in their dealings, and I'm sure that if you ask for a response, the reply you get from Lifeway will be an honest one.
     
  8. Aaron

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    Betcha don't get a response.
     
  9. USN2Pulpit

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    Aaron, they'll respond, but it will take a long time (in my experience).
     
  10. blackbird

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    I've glanced over the link Paladin provided-----awefully spooky sounding to me.

    To be honest---I don't know how Centrifuge or MFuge "goes about" scheduling different preachers for their events---but I suppose if you line up a thousand preachers---you'll get a few "quacks" from out of the group.
     
  11. Marcia

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    What is being described is being taught in some youth group gatherings, especially those associated with Youth Specialties. It's called Contemplative or Centering Prayer. It is based on techniques taught for Buddhist and Hindu meditation but was "christianized" by some Roman Catholic monks who brought into the Catholic Church first. In fact, one of the original teachers that was used included a monk who had become a Transcendental Meditation teacher. Then it got into the evangelical church via Richard Foster, Brennan Manning (though he's Catholic, he's popular with evangelicals)and others. Contemplative Prayer is neither contemplation nor prayer. I have an article on it my site:
    http://cana.userworld.com/cana_ContemplativePrayer1.html

    I also hear Thomas Keating, one of the 3 founders of this "movement" speak back in May when he was in this area. After his talk, I spoke with him personally and asked a few questions. He said some pretty startling things.
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I have actually been to two YS conferences and have never been introduced to what you are describing. I will have to do some more research and check into it...perhaps even ask them first hand and see if they respond.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. Paladin

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  14. Songbird

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    My dh was one of the leaders from our church that took our youth on an M-Fuge Missions trip in Jacksonville, FL.

    For the most part, he said it was great and it greatly impacted our youth.

    2 things disturbed him a bit. Sometimes the worship music became more of rock concert. He actually called me one night during a worship service. He stood outide of the auditorium b/c he couldn't take the loud music. I heard on his cell! Now, I'm used to Contemporary Christian Music--but this was over the top. He also said he doesn't think worship involves pelvic thrusts.

    Another thing was the cheer everyone did each morning b-4 going to the sites. The gist of it was, "Who's ya daddy?" The response from the kids was "JC." The kids from our church wanted to do that cheer in church when they presented their report. My dh lovingly and diplomatically explained that that cheer basically degraded our Lord and Savior. That seemed to settle it for the kids.

    I love youth work and encourage everyone to go on at least one missions' trip. But we need to be ready to help our kids see what true worship and repect for our God is.

    Take care.

    Linda
     
  15. Aaron

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    They're being "relevant." The funny thing is, they will demand that you provide an explicit passage against a practice before they deem it unbiblical.

    They mean well, so it is good. In otherwords, don't judge their fruits, judge their hearts.

    Boy, you're in trouble now, you bigoted, narrowminded, pharisaical legalist!

    In other words, we stand for Scripture alone, but we don't.

    Unfortunately for you, Jared, the foundation for this was laid long ago in another area where the SBC laid down their arms, and that was in the so-called "Worship Wars." If you can be relevant and on the cutting edge by adopting the "youth cultures" of dress, jargon and styles of "their" music...

    I noticed you described some of the styles and antics as over the line, but the line is a lot farther back now than our parents would have drawn it. The question is, where does God draw the line?

    ...then you can also in this style of meditation. They're one and the same, because music is a form of meditation. To battle this, you will have to do more than deal with this isolated incident. You can see that they simply greased the squeaky wheel in their replies to you. You'll have to battle the whole foundation and philosophy of modern youth ministry.
     
  16. Bro. Jeff

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    Man, how ignorant. Jared documented it well and thoroughly on his site. I've seen the hard copy of the letter he received from M-Fuge and the emails from Mohler and Nettles promising to "look in to this right away." (Written right before the national convention in Nashville.)

    Just because it points out a failure of an SBC entity doesn't mean it's anti-SBC. Jared is, in fact, committed to reform in the SBC..
     
  17. crazylegs

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    Guys,
    I'm the guy who posted the original article. If you'll go to my website, you can see all that happened. Also, if you believe that this didn't happen, then why did Lifeway send out the letter apologizing and confirming that the prayer had been changed?

    website- www.jaredmoore.exaltchrist.com
     
  18. crazylegs

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  19. USN2Pulpit

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    I'll not try to hard to defend myself - if this indeed happened, but I will stand by my admittedly anecdotal testimony: "I have never - read this: "NEVER" - heard of, witnessed, or been a part of anything even remotely close to what this article speaks of. And I was at a 'Fuge event during the year in question, when this was supposedly "scripted," or as the article somewhat misleadingly states, "from the lifeway outline that every M-fuge preacher must follow."

    Further, it was the first Fuge event of the season. If it had been scripted for everybody, I would have seen it. I don't know about other Fuge events, but it did not take place at the one I went to.

    Now if you think that's ignorant...first hand information that disputes the OP, you're entitled to your opinion. Being good at debate, I'm sure crazylegs can handle a discenting opinion.

    That was my reasoning at the time of my post months ago, which Bro.Jeff quoted. (But I thought this thread died months ago.) Crazylegs, I won't dispute - this may have happened...but I have a hard time believing it was scripted for everybody - or I would have seen it.
     
  20. crazylegs

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    USN2PULPIT,
    I understand what you are saying. Let me add this though... this prayer only lasted the first 2-3 weeks of camp last year... because, after I and some other gentlemen wrote lifeway about it, they changed it. It was changed for the rest of the summer.

    There was another youth pastor from Crossville, TN (The town I'm serving in) that went as well. He went to another "kind" of lifeway camp, and he experienced the same thing...

    Would you like me to send you a .jpeg of the original curriculum that each pastor had to sign off on?

    In Him,

    Jared Moore
     

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