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What is Hyper-Arminianism?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by preacher4truth, Jun 26, 2011.

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  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    This is why I call it (hyper-cal) "phantom" and it is a slur as you say.

    I would attribute Copeland and friends as hyper-arminians. I also, as you've stated, see many who would lend themselves this way in their theology (toward hyper-arminian).
     
    #21 preacher4truth, Jun 27, 2011
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  2. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    I believe the example of "hyper calvinism" would be John Ryland (not John Ryland, Jr., friend of William Carey; but his father, John Ryland, Sr.) who told Carey "sit down; if God pleases to convert the heathen, He will do it without your aid or mine."

    Existing sects today that exemplify this type of hyper calvinism...well, that's hard to find.

    On the other hand, one could just about use the Methodists and a whole slew of others as examples of hyper-Arminianism. Much easier to find people who believe they have to play some part in their salvation, than to find people who believe it's okay to simply sit on the couch because no one has any part whatsoever in salvation.
     
    #22 Don, Jun 27, 2011
  3. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Don't you think, human nature being what it is, we much easier see that which we are looking for?
     
    #23 quantumfaith, Jun 27, 2011
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    What do you need Allan for, you appear very good at Google so look up Primitive Baptists & read it for yourself.
     
    #24 Earth Wind and Fire, Jun 27, 2011
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    AMEN Brother:thumbs:
     
    #25 Earth Wind and Fire, Jun 27, 2011
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Google 'immediate regeneration'. Therein lies the difference.
     
    #26 kyredneck, Jun 27, 2011
  7. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Don, that is an excellent post. I contend that much more needs to be said, written, about hyper-arminianism since it is a tangible reality. It has been too easy to go around with "hyper-cal" label, pointing fingers at folks who simply believe the DoG's, and call them this, and most don't even know what a hyper-calvinist is.

    It certainly may have caused persons to act passively, but I don't see it leading to cultic nonsense seen that hyper-arms have caused, and as you've also mentioned.

    Hey, if hyper-cals ultimate end means it is ALL GOD, then call me that. I'd rather be accused of that than to be a hyper-arminian, and tied to these merchandisers in word-faith and heretics like Copeland, both being living examples of its end, MAN IN CONTROL OF GOD.
     
    #27 preacher4truth, Jun 27, 2011
  8. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Hyper Calvinism can lead one to spiritual pride, and also to deny sending forth the Gospel in order to have the elected out ones to become saved, as they say "God will save his own, period!"
     
    #28 JesusFan, Jun 27, 2011
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    they are hyper Charasmatics who are heretics teaching a false sdoctrines from a false god..

    they calim to be speaking for the Lord, but by dening the Cross, jesus died and had to get reborn again, their teachings equal to new revelation from God etc!

    Don't know IF they are Hyper Arms, as they would by definition be classied as heretics!
     
    #29 JesusFan, Jun 27, 2011
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  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Are you also "amening" the fact arminianism is "false salvation"...what Dr. Bob stated?
     
    #30 webdog, Jun 27, 2011
  11. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    And yet that 'phantom' is readily identified by other reformed believers as not only being true in our day and time but a growing concern.

    Monergism, Spurgeon.com, and other reformed websites have not only attested to this false view but that it is a growing problem. There is hyper'ism AND a full blown Hyper-Cal. Many are leaning toward Hyper-ism that will by default and inevitably lead to full blown Hyper-Calvinism. (I have a thread on here about this)

    So the 'phantom' isn't some ambiguous specter made up by opponents but real and here and now, attested to by the reformed groups themselvs
     
    #31 Allan, Jun 27, 2011
  12. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    I have a friend who prefers the distinction "Historical Baptist". I am quite confident that he is not "hyper-calvinistic". However, I must admit I don't understand the distinctions between i.e. Calvinism, Reformed Theology, Historical Baptists, DoG. I am sure that there are, I am simply unaware of such.
     
    #32 quantumfaith, Jun 27, 2011
  13. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Here are 5 points that speak to Hyper-Calvinistic beliefs found at Spurgeon.com epitomized with this quote from Phil Johnson at Spurgeon.org called "A Primer on Hyper-Calvinism:
    In this he states:.
    A hyper-Calvinist is someone who either:
    1. Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear, OR
    2. Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner, OR
    3. Denies that the gospel makes any "offer" of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal), OR
    4. Denies that there is such a thing as "common grace," OR
    5. Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect.

    Monergism.com (found here) also has a list that is 'seemingly' a bit more exhaustive however they state that Phil Johnson short list is simply a condensed version for their own and BOTH agree with each others listing. This statement is noted in my thread on Hyper-Calvinism and is defined by Calvinists
     
    #33 Allan, Jun 27, 2011
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  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Just a question Bob.

    A while back someone posted a thread with a poll. Some of the different positions were identified as the ones above: pelagian, semi-pelagian, (I think it had 3, 4 or all 5 point Calvinist), and a couple of other choices), defined each one and asked which one best fits your theology. A number of the posters (non-Cals) on the board chose "semi-pelagianism" to best represent their position. That being the case, according to your post above, are you suggesting that these folk have a "man-centric false salvation"?

    I am not accusing you, just asking. It seems to have offended some in the sense that you have called their salvation into question.
     
    #34 DHK, Jun 27, 2011
  15. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    The offense (even for those of us who don't hold to it), is that he calls NOT hyper-Arminian a false salvation (which I would concur since it goes beyond the Arminian position and goes into an actual Pel and semi-Pel view) ... but that Arminianism itself is false gospel... ERGO.. if you aren't Calvinist you aren't saved as anything else is a 'false' gospel.

    If he misworded it that would be one thing.. however if not.. well.. we will see what he says.
     
    #35 Allan, Jun 27, 2011
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    "False salvation" was poorly worded by me - and changed. Thanks for pointing out my word choice. Some arminians may truly be born again by God's grace alone, even if they mistakenly think they had something to do with it!!

    False perception of salvation would better describe most Arminians here.
     
    #36 Dr. Bob, Jun 27, 2011
  17. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I see brother. But it that has been identified is a "growing concern" yet not named and personified in actuality, such as hyper-armianism is linked to Jerry Savelle, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland and others. I think I could also put Joel Osteen in this same category. This is not nearly as ambiguous as "hyper-calvinism" is and I have not met a hyper calvinist personally.

    However, let's pretend that whatever point they (hyper-cals) believe in be true, what is its ultimate and logical end? I contend that it would be that it is All God. And at the end of the day, if their tenets were absolutely true, would we still, Glorify God, and still, ultimately trust in Him, and believe that all of His Sovereign control and purposes are Just and Holy (as HE can be none other)?

    What if this (hyper-cal) became readily indentifiable in a real local church, yet they preached the Gospel, baptized regularly, attributed all of it (and we know they would say all of it!!) was due to God, and all glory to Him? I can't sit here and say I would have a problem with that whatsoever.

    Now, I do have a serious issue with hyper-arminianism. That is for certain.

    I appreciate the links, and have been there often looking at what is said. Thank you.
     
    #37 preacher4truth, Jun 27, 2011
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    just a question...
    being one on the Arminianist camp so to apeak here on BB...

    Do you see all cals as being essentially the same in their positions/view points?
    Do you see a difference between moderate/high camp cals?

    Are do you see doctrinal the resident Armaldist on BB. myself?

    thanks!
     
    #38 JesusFan, Jun 27, 2011
  19. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Ok.. on that I can live with.. thank you for the clarification
     
    #39 Allan, Jun 27, 2011
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Not all Calvinists are the same.
    I answered that to some degree here:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1698636&postcount=61

    As for you, I am not sure what your are. :)
     
    #40 DHK, Jun 27, 2011
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