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What is Hyper-Calvinism?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by BobinKy, Jun 26, 2011.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hello Allan,
    I believe all of salvation is the gift of God,
    grace, repentance,regeneration,. faith, belief [the ability to savingly believe],sanctification,glorification

    So.....God in mercy is able to give these to those who do not live long enough , or are born without the natural capacity to be drawn savingly to God by the Spirit working in the unseen realm.
    Jeremiah and John the baptist are used to illustrate this...not just chosen as prophets...but chosen from the womb to be His children.
    As we know salvation is a supernatural work....
    a donkey does not normally speak, a big fish does not normally swallow a person,and vomit them out
    dead corpses do not walk out of the grave if you call their name

    Allan.....to simplify. I fully believe in the biblical teaching of election unto salvation.
    Salvation is the blood of the covenant death being applied to these elect persons along with the imputed righteousness of the active obediance of the Lord Jesus Christ given to us.
    The confession properly states that God will save all His elect,

    So.....if God has elected any or all persons unable to be called by the normal outward means.......he will apply to all those given to Him by the Father...the work of the cross.
    The Great Shepherd seeks and saves the seed of Abraham...wherever they are,and in whatever condition they are in.
    He will seek them in the womb, outside the womb, in the university, or the mental health facility.....He will save all His elect ,by the one work of the cross...he will save all His elect..He is not willing that any of His elect perish, but that all come to repentance....

    they are all conceived ,dead in sin, and need His mercy.:thumbs:

    Faith is the instrumetality to access the perfect work. Saving faith is God given.....not inherent in the sinner

    God does not plow a field he is not going to plant in. If God has purposed to save any and all of these persons it is by design...not by reaction to them, or somehow they were innocent...they are all guilty.
     
    #41 Iconoclast, Jun 27, 2011
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  2. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Icon..

    I can see nothing in the above which actually answers my question nor addresses my statement about the propitiation being applied by faith.
    You state "the blood of the covenant death being applied to these elect persons along with the imputed righteousness of the active obediance of the Lord Jesus Christ given to us."... but do not address the fact that it is only imparted to us after we believe.

    My point is to find out what you hold on this, more concisely.

    Do you hold that the propitiation (blood covenant) is applied prior to faith?
    Do you hold that salvation is by faith, through grace?

    In other words.. do you believe God will save a person a part from faith?

    While I agree salvation is by design but is not the reaction ALSO by design.
     
    #42 Allan, Jun 27, 2011
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  3. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    other than PB, don't ALL Bapptists posting here on BB affirm that faith is the 'trigger" that gets the regeneration purchased by Jesus Christ for His Elect thru the death and atonement wrought in the Cross?
     
  4. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    That was what I was attempting to know.. as it was in regard to his statement to Webdog:
    .
    This is why I was asking him to clarify.. he might have been addressing Webs statement of no original sin, but the statement seemed not to include faith as the vehicle of salvation..

    However with that statement, I also wanted to know about his position when the propitiation is applied as it plays a rather large role there depending on the answer.
     
    #44 Allan, Jun 27, 2011
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  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Is it applied at moment of faith in work/person of jesus Christ?

    or is that from our viewpoint, from that of Gods...

    Either from eternity, applied to elect of God, or to those that he forsaw placing their faith in christ?

    Can there be 2 times, based on whose perspective?
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Could you show that to me in scripture? I ask because I lost a child. Thanks
     
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Quantum, do you consider yourself an Arminian? Also, I didnt say all.
     
  8. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 18:10

    Jesus addresses this!
     
  9. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Righteous

    "Father, give us courage to change what must be altered, serenity to accept what cannot be helped, and the insight to know the one from the other."

    Some times we must just trust in God that He will be just in the matters that we do not understand this side of heaven; That we put in His hands and continue in the direction God has for us through Jesus Christ.
     
    #49 psalms109:31, Jun 27, 2011
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  10. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    No, several Calvinists here have said the opposite, that regeneration triggers faith.

    This cannot be, because believeing takes real time. To believe the gospel you must first hear it which takes time. You must process what you have heard to understand it, which takes time. Then you must make that decision to trust.

    I am not saying this takes a great deal of time, but it does take time. If during this time you are regenerated, then you are a regenerated unbeliever! This is nonsensical and in contradiction to all scripture, there is no such thing as a regenerated unbeliever. And justification is through faith, so you would also be a regenerated sinner with everlasting life. Again, this contradicts all scripture. No one can be regenerated, having eternal life until their sins are forgiven, and no one can be forgiven until they believe. Therefore one must first believe to be regenerated. All scripture supports this, no scripture supports regeneration preceding faith.

    I challenge any Calvinist to show even one verse that shows regeneration preceding faith.
     
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    How about verses in Titus 3:4-6/John 1:9-13

    Ask and ye shall find!
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    "David's Response to His Son's Sickness and Death

    2 Samuel 12:15-23, "And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick. David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth. And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them. And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead? But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead. Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the LORD, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat. Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."
    http://ecclesia.org/truth/davids_son.html
     
  13. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Beg to differ on John 1:9-13; (12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born...of God.

    They had to receive Him to be given the power to become the sons of God, to be born of Him.
     
  14. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Based on Tom Butler's short but to the point definition (which no cal here disagreed with ) and based on the answers of a handful here that faith is not required for salvation, only "mercy" it is safe to say there are more hyper-cal's than even they realize, proving my point.
     
  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    They'reEverywhere!They'reEverywhere!They'reEverywhere!
     
    #55 kyredneck, Jun 27, 2011
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  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    We are saved/made a new creation/born again/regenerated by grace alone. It is 100% God's work and 0% mine.

    The reason my part is 0%? I can do no righteous thing in the sight of God. I "must" be born again before I can do anything righteous. (Jesus reminded Nick of that, John 3).

    With an invisible change within I am a child of God and WILL repent, believe, call on the Lord. If I don't have faith/repentance, it shows I have NOT received God's grace and been regened by His Spirit.
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Well....sure.....once God does His saving work in us.....then we work ,we believe, we repent daily, through faith we pray believing, we witness, we urge sinners to turn......trusting that it is God working in us..to will and to do of His good pleasure! I am confident we are mostly agreed on this part.


    Allan....I am confident that you would not butcher someones soul. I mean if I met someone in Dakota...i would be confident to send them your way, knowing you would speak to them of sin, repentance, salvation by the blood, sanctification by the word,etc.
    We do not always agree...but I know you would not trick them with some kind of easy believism junk..that leads to false converts.
    I know you would seek to ground them in the word.
    I just believe it would all be more effective if we were closer on some of these things....well that is why we post back and forth!
     
    #57 Iconoclast, Jun 27, 2011
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  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Iconoclast, you throw the heresy tag around way too loosely. An age of accountability has not been deemed heresy by anyone but you. James 1:15.

    It also would help those reading to use the quote function properly, I don't know who said what with all of the colored quotes.
     
    #58 webdog, Jun 27, 2011
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  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    wd....allan i tried to leave in black print...
    i am typing challenged..very lame I confess to that.

    I do believe it to be a heretical denial of romans 5....so i call it like I see it.
    I know you do not share that opinion WD.....sorry about that....but I stand by what I have posted.Others do believe what I do on that...but I will stand on it because of what I see the scriptures teach,not what the others say....

    I tried to post for you weeks ago a link showing that we all died....it is a point action....in other words at the point Adam died....we all died in Him.
    I did not write it,,,but that is what it says...so I believe it.
    Do you remember it? I will look it up later if you want me to.

    Wd our own sin that we commit does bring forth death..that is true.....but it does not deny that we died in Adam already....

    We sinned in Him...we also commit our own sins....
     
    #59 Iconoclast, Jun 27, 2011
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  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    OK then read Dr. Bob's post....I believe # 56 & tell me if you agree/disagree
     
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