What is Liberalism?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JustChristian, Mar 25, 2009.

  1. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0
    Many on the BB believe that theological liberalism and political liberalism go together. They might but they also might not just as theological fundamentalism and political conservation may or may not go together. When the word "Liberal" is tossed around posters need to define what they mean by liberal. Actually, there aren't many if any real political liberals on the board. Practically all who are denigrated by the title of liberal are actually moderate. Especially erroneous is to assume that all Democrats are liberal. It's actually wrong to assume that all Republicans are conservative as the last president demonstrated.

    It's also a mistake to say that because a person votes for a candidate they accept all of their policies. That assumes that there is an imaginative "perfect candidate" out there who exactly matches your political philosophy. I've never found such a candidate and I've voted in Presidential elections for over 40 years.

    Just to make another thing clear, I haven't run into anyone one this board who supports the "Right to Choose." I certainly don't. So if anyone starts calling me a "baby killer" again because I voted for Obama I'll return the favor. Both statements would be false so why get into it?
     
  2. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,505
    Likes Received:
    40
    JC sez:
    I was with you pretty good til this quote!

    From this statement I assume that you are equating the abortion policies of the "0" to collateral damage in war!? Please correct me if this is a wrong assumption.

    In the words of the immortal bard, "Me thinks thou doth protest too much!"
     
  3. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    Labels are libels. They are a matter of degrees too.

    It represents the height of personal incredulity and churlish behavior to blast someone with such an ad homenim attack without actually engaging them in dialogue.

    In the other thread I listed about fifteen to twenty theological issues that are representative of liberalism. I'd love to find out if anybody around here actual adheres to more than one of them.

    It's just personal ignorance and arrogance to flaunt labels like that. Its a cowards way to "win" an argument.
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,383
    Likes Received:
    790
    You continue to say that but in another thread you used the word "ameri-centrist" to describe Americans who you claim are arrogant and self centered. It would seem the attack on labels is a matter of convenience for you.

    I assume you meant childish rather than churlish. This leads one to believe that a label has been used without and further debate. I know of no one who would use any label much less "liberal" and does not carry on with debate.

    Maybe you should look through the entire thread. And by the way there are those on this board who do hold to choice. But they will not speak of it as it is against the posting rules.

    Again I know of no one who simply sues any label to "win and argument". But you do not seem to avoid labels yourself.
     
  5. Palatka51

    Palatka51
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,724
    Likes Received:
    0
    What is Liberalism?

    Political Liberalism = Someone who wants to spend someone else's money.

    Theological Liberalism = Someone who thinks that they have no culpability when electing a baby killer into office.
     
  6. sag38

    sag38
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,394
    Likes Received:
    1
    In today's political environment
    .
    .
    Moderate
    Progressive
    .
    .
    Different words-Same meaning.
    .
    .
    LIBERAL
     
  7. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have never used the term anti-centrist on this board. Please post the thread and post number you are referring to. My bet is you can't do that. Right?
     
  8. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0
    So when you call someone a liberal which one are you referring to?
     
  9. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0
    Conservative = radical rightest correct?
     
  10. Palatka51

    Palatka51
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,724
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't recall ever directly labeling anyone a Liberal. If I have, the one I might be referring to depends upon the subject being discussed. If in a thread that deals with faith and religion I might suggest that you are a liberal, it shouldn't be very hard for a bright young man such as you to know that I am labeling you as a theological liberal.

    If the thread's subject is political and I give you the liberal label you should know that I have labeled you as politically, liberal.

    Is it really all that hard for you to know the difference?
     
  11. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm a bright man but not young anymore. From what you're saying on a political thread liberal always means politically liberal for you. On a theological thread you always mean theological liberal. It never means both, right?
     
    #11 JustChristian, Mar 25, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2009
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,383
    Likes Received:
    790
    I never said you did. Pay attention to who it was I quoted.
     
  13. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have never voted politically liberal in my lifetime. In Canada, I have never voted for the so-called socialist party either. I am a biblical socialist and have voted for the Conservative party, The Social Credit Party, which is not totally socialist either, but I am still labelled by some as a socialist and a liberal.

    Much the same happens in theological circles mainly because I interpret scriptures differently to many fundamentalists. A different undestanding of certain scriptures does not a liberal theologian make, and this is why we must be careful with labels.

    I do not relabel Sproul's position because he changed his views on the creation period, and only recently adopted the 6-day teaching. I always considered him fundamental in theology (not a Fundamentalist).

    I am a theistic evolutionist, but never considered myself out of the framework of the Word of God, the scriptures, as we know the 66 books.

    I view the scriptures as the record of redemption down through the ages, and not a history or scientific textbook. It is open to local, historical and cultural understanding, without which, they become inaccurate in understanding, yea, impossible to understand correctly.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  14. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are all kinds of liberals. Social Liberals, Fiscal Liberals, Relegious Liberals, etc.

    Personally I tend to be fiscally conservative(hard core) and socially conservative(a little softer).

    I think it's the church's duty to help the poor, not the governments. The government's job is to enforce laws, build roads, and protect the nation from attack.
     
  15. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am probably more theologically liberal than some of you, SOME of you.. but there are some who are more liberal than me theologically speaking.. but I am very politically conservative.

    It is all in perspective.
     
  16. DrRandyGrace

    DrRandyGrace
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    In my ministry, I have been called a fundamentalist, a conservative, and a liberal . . . sometimes by the same person. I don't think anyone has ever called me a moderate. I consider myself conservative in the extreme and have always made such judgments by examining one's stand on the fundamental doctrines of Scripture. I must confess that I have never understood how one can claim to be Christian and fundamental and vote the way that some of those who claim to be such do vote. I know I am rambling, so I will just go back to my corner, now.
     
  17. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're mixing the definitions again. You're saying that you're a theological conservative and a political conservative. I'm a theological conservative and a political moderate. I don't consider myself to be a political liberal because I don't support many of the things liberals support. For instance, I don't support abortion, affirmative action (rather equal opportunity for all based on their qualifications), In Vietro Fertilization or cloning of human beings. I am against most wars unless they are absolutely necessary, capital punishment, and for separation of church and state.

    Actually, I think we put labels on people far too often rather than treating them as individuals. It's certainly NOT true that a political moderate/liberal is a theological liberal. It's also not true that only Republicans can be saved.
     
  18. DrRandyGrace

    DrRandyGrace
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    In my humble opinion, if one can separate one's Christianity from one's politics, there is something wrong with both of them.
     
  19. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,659
    Likes Received:
    190
    In one sense, I agree. Certainly one’s politics and theological understanding should come from the same worldview and have a coherent unity. However, one may find oneself holding what is considered a “liberal” viewpoint in the political world, because one holds a very “conservative” viewpoint theologically.


    For instance, theologically and historically conservative (or even fundamentalist) Baptists often hold to the principle of institutional separation of church and state (because they don’t want the purity of the church tainted by politics). In most political arenas, even in the United States, that is considered a “liberal” position by mainstream society. In reverse, there are theologically liberal folks (who may believe that bland civil religion is a force for good citizenship and deportment, but what you personally believe is cosmologically irrelevant) who want to impose civil religion on every citizen, a position that is considered “conservative” by much of mainstream society.


    So it is certainly possible for someone to be theologically conservative and hold some “liberal” political views (for theologically conservative reasons) or be theologically liberal and hold some “conservative” political views (for theologically liberal reasons).


    Beyond all of that, there’s the issue of the differing roles of personal convictions and the role of government. I believe, with no reservations, that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and I will urge all persons to give their lives to Jesus. However, I don’t think government should use its force or influence to urge or attempt to compel anyone to give their lives to Jesus.


    So with personal convictions, I am strongly in favor of and engaged in evangelism. In political matters, I am thoroughly against any proposal to use government for evangelism.
     
  20. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    In political circles they must care for all religions, non-religions, secularists,,,,all citizens of that country, and not just evangelical Christians. In the churches, we look after the things of Christ.

    Hence, on a secular point of view we can be liberal, but as a Christian, conservative.

    Whilst we have political responsibilities, we have obligations stemming from spiritual beliefs in the churches. A huge difference.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     

Share This Page

Loading...