What is Replacement Theology?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Apr 25, 2004.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Would somebody please give me a very simple definition of this, if that is possible, and tell me what scriptures are used by supporters of this view to support it? Not looking for an argument, here. I have just seen this talked about in a perirpheral manner, but have no real understanding of what it actually is.

    Thanks for your help,

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

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  3. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
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    From what I know, Replacement Theology says that Israel has been replaced by the Church. That is, what was once God's chosen people, the recipient of His promises, is now no different than any other nation, and that the Church has taken posession of all promises, prophecies, etc. Totally wrong, in my opinion, but that is what it means.
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    What scripture is used by supporters to back up this view?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

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  6. Watchman

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    Joseph, I found at a websight called bridgesforpeace.com where the writer lists, at least some, of the scriptures that adherants to this doctrine uses:
    Gal. 3:29, Rom. 4:13, Mal. 1:11, Mat. 21:43,
    Rom. 2:28-29, Rom. 11:17-23, 2Cor. 1:20
     
  7. Watchman

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    By the way, Dan in the Coffee House Chapel, under All Other Discussions, has been in the book of Romans for some time now. Some of his posts there are excellent refutations of this doctrine.
     
  8. Pete Richert

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    There is no such thing as replacement theology. It is a caricature, or better a strawman set up by dispensationals who don't understand Covenant Theology or other non-dispensational hermanutics.
     
  9. DHK

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    Replacement Theology is the belief that the church has actually replaced Israel, as God's chosen people, so that Israel no longer exists today. Paul says that Israel has been blinded for a season; but they are still here. Logically they must be here for Christ could come at any time, and they as a nation will turn to them and be saved, at the end of the Tribulation Period.

    Most Catholics believe in Replacement Theology, and of course it is the Catholic Church that has replaced the nation of Israel. It is only the Catholic Church through which there is salvation [sic].
    Replacement Theology in essence is anti-semitic. The Muslims believe in a type of Replacement Theology. They believe that as "Christians" have replaced the Jews, they will replace the Christians. That's a frightening thought isn't it?
    DHK
     
  10. Grasshopper

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    I think Pete made a good point of the term "Replacement Theology":

    There is no such thing as replacement theology. It is a caricature, or better a strawman set up by dispensationals who don't understand Covenant Theology or other non-dispensational hermanutics.

    Elements of the Old Covenant were transformed as they passed from the Old to the New Covenant. Circumcision went from a physical act to a spiritual act. The Law went from written on tablets to written on the heart. So it is with Israel, it went from a physical type to a spiritual reality. Those physical Jews who became believers were transformed into the spiritual seed of Abraham yet also his physical seed. But the NT is clear that the physical is no longer in play, it is only the spiritual.

    So the church didn't "replace" Isreal, Israel was transformed into the church. The only ones who believe in "Replacement Theology" are those who believe physical Israel will oneday "replace" the church.

    Who are the sons of God:

    Gal. 3:24-26: "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus."

    Who are the children of God:

    Romans 8:16 "The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,"

    Romans 8:21 "that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God."

    Romans 9:8 "That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants."

    Romans 8: 16-17 "The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him."

    Who are the descendants of Abraham and heirs to promise:

    Galatians 3:28-29 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise."

    Does your race matter anymore:

    Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies , and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. "

    1 Tim. 1:4 "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies , which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: (so do)."

    According to scripture genealogies are meaningless, yet even on this thread some believe they matter a great deal.

    Of course if you accept this position, you will be labeled.

     
  11. LadyEagle

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    Replacememt Theology is the opposite of Dispensationalism.
     
  12. Optamill

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    "Replacement theology" is the Dispensationalist label for the theology of all other Christians before Dispensationalism came on the scene. That includes Roman Catholic theology, Eastern Orthodox theology, Calvinist theology, Lutheran theology, and Anabaptist theology.

    Have I left anyone out?
     
  13. mioque

    mioque
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    Optamill
    "Have I left anyone out? "
    Zwinglian theology and Oriental Orthodox theology as far as I can tell.
    There is ofcourse a broad range of theological positions, many anti-semitic and some not that fall under the header of Replacement Theology.
    On the other hand some of the creepier anti-semites on this planet are found among the dispensationalist front
     
  14. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
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    Dispensationalism teaches that there are two peoples of God, Israel and the church. Scripture teaches that there is only one people of God and is illustrated by the symbol of the olive tree in Romans 11. The unbelieving Jews were cut off and the believing Gentiles were grafted in among the believing Jews. There is, therefore, ONE olive tree, NOT two. In the Dispensational model, the only ones who retain their position are those Jews who cried, "Crucify Him!" The believing Jews were cut off and made into a new olive tree into which Gentiles were grafted in. So goes Dispensationalism...
     
  15. Daniel David

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    You do realize that I get to write off this entire post by saying that I believe in ONE people of God and am a staunch dispensationalist. Oops.
     
  16. DeafPosttrib

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    If you think amill & posttrib both are replacement theology. Then, amill and posttrib both believe btoh Jews and Gentiles are reconciled together into one by the Calvary 2,000 years ago - Eph. 2:12-16, there is the only one family of God. I do not believed in divided among the household of God. I believe in the unity of the household of God. Both Jews and Gentiles are unity together on the same one olive tree - Romans 11:25-26. Church does not replace Israel. Israel IS Church.

    Church is not: religion, organization, society, building.

    Church is God's people throughout all ages from Adam to the end of the world. Church means called out, assembly together, congregation. Also, church is the rock.

    Apostle Paul wrote 1 Cor. 10:1-4 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the SAME SPIRITUAL MEAT; And did all drink the SAME SPIRITUAL DRINK; for they drank of that SPIRITUAL ROCK that followed them: and that ROCK WAS CHRIST."

    Christ was already there in the wilderness with Moses and Hebrews. They followed Christ, He is their rock. Same as we follow Christ, he is our rock.

    While Stephen preached at the council of scribes and priests. He told them of Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:"

    Church was already there with Moses in the wilderness. Church means congregation.

    Often, the word - church defines congregation while it was in the original manuscripts. During Authorized Version translation in year between 1604 to 1611. King James told them, he want word, 'congregation' removed and chnage to 'church'. 'Church' appeared only in the New Testament. No 'church' appears in the Old testament. Actually, 'church' does appear in the Old Testament lot. I would like you to look at article - http://the hidingplace.net/topic.cgi?forum=54&topic=28. David Taylor does a very good job research on Old Testament for 'ekklesia', show it proved 'ekklesia' was penned down in the O.T.

    I read 1611 Authorized Version. In the introduction, at the page 8, talks about word 'church'. It says: "Lastly, wee haue on the side auoided the scrupulostitie of the Puritanes, who leaue the olde Eccelesiasticall words, and betake them to other, as when they put washing for Baptisme, and congregation in stead of Church: as also on the other side we shunned the obscuritie of the Papists, in their Azimes, Tunike, Rational, Holocausts, Prxpuce, Pasche,(I have difficult to read tiny words in 1611 A.V. on Introuction, I hope this spelling is correct)and a number of such like, whereof their late Translation is full, and that of purpose to darken the sence, that since they must needs translate the Bible, yet by the language thereof, it may bee kept from being vnderstood.".

    Obivously, church- 'ekklesia' was in LXX Greek Septuagint long before 1611 A.V. chnaged it to 'congregation'.

    Actually, church was already there in the Old testament period long time before Christ came to earth for Calvary. Church does not begin at Pentacost Day. Christ already start church long time ago before Pentacost Day.

    About 2 years ago, I found there is another referance verse for Matt. 16:18 in the Old Testament. It refers in Genesis 32:28.

    While Christ wrestled with Jacob. Christ asked him, what's his name. He said, "I'm Jacob". Then, Christ said to him, "Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed."

    There are three key words of Gen. 32:28: 'power', 'men', and 'prevailed'.

    Please look to Matt. 16:18-19, Christ said, "And I say also unto thee, That thou are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

    There are three important key words of Matt. 16:18-19: 'church', 'prevail', and 'keys'. I understand what Christ talked about. He told Peter, that He is the rock. He is built his people(church), that the hell shall not overcome them, because He gaven the power to the church to spread the gospel of the kingdom of heaven to earth, Satan and hell cannot stop them.

    Now back to Gen. 32:28 again. Notice three important words - 'power', 'men', and 'prevailed'.
    Israel means, a Prince have power to built his people with sucessful. Who is the Prince? Jesus! - Dan. 9:25; Isa. 9:6; Acts 3:15; and 5:31.

    Christ does not saying to Jacob, 'a prince hast thou power with God and with Jews..." He said, 'men', simple mean people. So, tehrefore, Christ told Peter, He is built his church, means, He is built his people.

    Church already there in the Old Testament long time ago before Pentacost Day.

    Church does NOT replace Israel. Israel is Church. Both are same. Gal. 4:26 tells us, "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of US ALLLL." Obivously, all Old Testament saints and New Testament saints are now live in the heaven with Christ, they are the children of Jerusalem. Rev. 21:9 tells us, that the angel shows John, the Christ's bride. New Jerusalem IS the Christ's bride! Same as New Jerusalem is Isreal. New Jerusalem is Church. Simple, no complex.

    Gal. 6:15-16 - "For IN Christ Jesus NEITHER cicumcision availeth any thing, NOR uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the ISREAL OF GOD."

    It is very clear, no matter which Jew or Gentile, circumised or without cicumised, both are IN Christ, as they are a new creature, they are the ISREAL OF GOD.

    Simple, no complex.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen.
     
  17. Optamill

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    "You do realize that I get to write off this entire post by saying that I believe in ONE people of God and am a staunch dispensationalist. Oops."

    This is an interesting claim. Dispensationalism came on the scene in the 1820s claiming that God has two peoples: 1) an earthly people with earthly promises and an earthly destiny (Israel), and 2) a heavenly people with heavenly promises and a heavenly destiny (the Church).

    The purpose of the pretribulation rapture in Dispensationalist thinking is to remove the heavenly people from the scene so that God can resume his program with his earthly people. The millennium serves as the time when God will fulfill all the promises made in the Old Testament to Israel.

    Now, recently there have been some calling themselves Dispensationalists who say there is only one people of God, but that Dispensationalism means believing in a future for the people of Israel. Problem: there are many historic premills, amills, and postmills who believe there is a future for ethnic Israel, but they are definitely not Dispensationalists!

    Would you care to explain what Dispensationalism means in your way of thinking?
     
  18. DeafPosttrib

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    If you can't go through link of David Taylor's article on 'church'. Then, you type, http://thehidingplace.net then, go and look for 'Post Trib Essentials' look for 'The Church(essklesia) in the Old Testament?'. Please read this.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  19. brumleyj

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    preach it amem deaf posttrib way to go i give you thumb up for your excellcent post well done. [​IMG]

    brumleyj
    ps27:1
     
  20. Daniel David

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    Okay, the church is all the redeemed of the earth. Um, that would be why Christ said that He WILL (future) build His church. Right. Tell ya what, please learn what dispensationalism actually teaches before you cut and paste your posts.

    I have said this to you before. You misrepresent dispies, and you burn strawmen that YOU create.

    I don't believe in a divided family.
    I don't believe in two peoples of God.
    I believe the church continues throughout eternity.
    I believe the kingdom exists now.
    I believe the New Covenant was cut on the cross.

    Now, if you want to smack dispensationalism, post what WE believe, not what you believe we believe, and then post Scripture.
     

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