What is settled in Heaven? Poll

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Su Wei, Jul 27, 2006.

?

what is the Word that is settled in Heaven?

  1. The original manuscripts, every jot and tittle

    10 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. Only the OT law

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  3. God's thoughts

    3 vote(s)
    16.7%
  4. In the NT, the TR

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  5. In the NT, the Byzantine text type

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  6. In the NT, the Alexandrian text type

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  7. The KJV

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  8. Some other translation

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  9. None of the above

    6 vote(s)
    33.3%
  10. All of the above

    2 vote(s)
    11.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Su Wei

    Su Wei
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    Psalms 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

    John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    This poll is to find out what people think: What is the "Word" that is forever settled in heaven?
     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    Good idea for a poll, Su Wei. Let's see what happens.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

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    Bad question :(

    Psalm 119:89 (Geneva Bible):
    LAMED. O Lord, thy worde endureth for euer in heauen.
     
    #3 Ed Edwards, Jul 27, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2006
  4. John of Japan

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    Why, Brother Ed?? :confused:
     
  5. TCassidy

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    Good question but the correct answer is not up there so I had to go with "none of the above."
     
  6. tinytim

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    This is interesting.. I haven't voted yet, because I am studying what the word, "word" means in Hebrew.. When David wrote this, he could not have been talking about the NT, let alone the KJV, or anyother translation of the NT, even a lot of the OT wasn't written yet.

    Then take into account the way the KJV translators translated the Hebrew word for "word" someplaces they translated it as speech, thing, manner, sake, errand, case, any, advice, dealings, whit, there done, tidings, hurt, acts, chronicles, rate, deed,

    And in psalms , it translates the word as word, words, language, matters, disease, iniquities, commandments, signs, promise, affairs,

    and in Psalms 119, it translates it as word, words, and wherewith,

    My question is why so many different english words for the one hebrew word, and why did the translators choose the word "word"

    It could have easily read in Hebrew,
    Psalms 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy signs is settled in heaven.
    Psalms 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy disease is settled in heaven.
    Psalms 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy affairs is settled in heaven.
    Psalms 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy whit is settled in heaven.
    Psalms 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy acts is settled in heaven.

    Why did they choose "word"?
    Were they inspired to do so?
     
    #6 tinytim, Jul 27, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2006
  7. LRL71

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    None of the above. 'Tis a really good question if you had better answers. :confused:
     
  8. Ed Edwards

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    Psa 119:89 (KJV1769 Edition with Strong's Numbers:

    Forever,5769 O LORD,3068 thy word1697 is settled5324 in heaven.8064

    Strong's entry translated here 'word': H1697
    דּבר
    dâbâr
    daw-bawr'
    From H1696; a word; by implication a matter (as spoken of) of thing;
    adverbially a cause: - act, advice, affair, answer, X any such (thing),
    + because of, book, business, care, case, cause, certain rate,
    + chronicles, commandment, X commune (-ication),
    + concern [-ing], + confer, counsel, + dearth, decree, deed,
    X disease, due, duty, effect, + eloquent, errand, [evil favoured-] ness,
    + glory, + harm, hurt, + iniquity, + judgment, language,
    + lying, manner, matter, message, [no] thing, oracle,
    X ought, X parts, + pertaining, + please, portion, + power,
    promise, provision, purpose, question, rate, reason, report,
    request, X (as hast) said, sake, saying, sentence, + sign,
    + so, some [uncleanness], somewhat to say, + song, speech,
    X spoken, talk, task, + that, X there done, thing (concerning),
    thought, + thus, tidings, what [-soever], + wherewith, which,
    word, work.


    So this question probably and these answers for sure are
    unfruitful lines of inquiry. This verse isn't about the Bible, God's
    Holy Written Word (Rhema), this verse is more likely about the
    Son of God, Messiah Jesus, God's Holy Living Word (Logos).

    2Co 13:1 (KJV1611 Edition):
    This is the third time I am comming to you: in the mouth of two
    or three witnesses shal euery word be established.


    IMHO this Command of the LORD is especially true concerning
    the Bible, God's Holy Written Word (Rhema). Yes, here 'word'
    is translated from the Greek (rhema), so it is talking about
    Bible, God's Holy Written Word.

    I believe that God has given us many witnesses, even in English
    languages. This verse is very instructive in the GENEVA BIBLE (1587) which
    I quoted above, an English Version that pre-dates the
    original KJV Edition of 1611.
     
  9. Ed Edwards

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    Sister Su Wei in another topic asks:

    //gotta say, i'm getting the feeling we don't have the same definition
    of "preserved"... how can a certain version or other be
    the "current preserved Word"? What exactly is forever settled in heaven? //

    I agree, we have many definitions of 'preserved'. What is
    your definition?

    The very nature of the topic title I took this question from
    shows that it is specific versions which are preserved:

    The preserved Word of God for ? speaking people.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=31961&page=3

    Perchance the secret is in this verse said of Jesus to Peter:
    Mat 16:19 (KJV1611 Edition):

    And I will giue vnto thee the keyes of the kingdome of heauen:
    and whatsoeuer thou shalt bind on earth,
    shall be bound in heauen: whatsoeuer thou shalt loose on earth,
    shall be loosed in heauen
    .

    I believe that God has PRESERVED the Bible, the written word
    of God, by many many witnesses, even in English languages. :thumbs:
     
  10. tinytim

    tinytim
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    So would a correct way to interpret the word "word" would be something that is manifested from the giver? I am just trying to understand how "word", "saying" and "disease" come from the same Hebrew word.


    So could it be interpreted that anything to proceeds from God, or manifested from God is settled in Heaven?

    Promises, His Son, the Bible, His deeds, His Judgements, His Blessings, are all then settled in Heaven..

    And the word "settled" can mean established.

    and TCassidy, what is the correct answer? Am I on the right track?
     
  11. John of Japan

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    What would be your answer, Dr. TC?
     
  12. TheWinDork

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    The Originals... Nuff Said.
     
  13. TCassidy

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    The entire context of Psalm 119 uses several different words to expound on the eternal nature of God's word. The Hebrew words are very interesting. The Hebrew word translated as statutes carries the meaning of "eternal teachings." Law carries the meaning of "rules for relationships." Commandments = a contract based on authority. Testimonies = to give witness to that which you have seen. Word = a recorded conversation. Judgments = the rule of law for the foundation of God's relationship to His people. Precepts = God's established standard for moral conscience. Ordinances = God revealed order for godly living.

    The entire Psalm is talking about God's Self-Revelation to His people. That revelation took place in verbal form, through the prophets, which was then recorded, written down, for the use of all the people. To take this single verse out of context is to do great damage to the entire Psalm.

    What is it that is "forever settled" set, established, stands firm, as firm as the Heavens themselves? Every word of God. Every promise. Every prophecy. Every thing God has ever revealed to mankind is eternally established as being true, faithful, and never changing.

    It is silly to try to say that promise applies to only one translation of the bible produced 2500 years after the promise was given. It is equally silly to say that promise applies to only one manuscript or text of the Old or New Testament. The promise applies to all that God has revealed of Himself to mankind.

    In order to understand the context of verse 89 you have to go all the way back to verse 33 and following and see what the Psalmist (probably Ezra writing on the occasion of finding the scroll of the Law during the restoration of the Temple) was talking about.
     
  14. John of Japan

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    Well said, Doctor. I'll have to ponder it. :type:
     
  15. John of Japan

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    Brother Ed, I don't want to discount your interpretation out of hand, but how can this refer to the Living Word when the rest of the Psalm refers constantly to the "law," etc.? And how can Christ be "settled in Heaven?"
     
  16. Ed Edwards

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    I sure did leave a lot of wiggle room with " ... this verse
    is more likely about ... " :praying:
     
  17. tinytim

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    WOW, I was on the right track! Thank you.
     
  18. Su Wei

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    Thank you for the replies. I have lots to learn.
    Indeed, if you don't find an answer that suits your understanding, please feel free to state what God has laid upon your heart as to what is written in that heavenly book. :thumbs:

    I guess my concern is, Jesus said that the word that he has spoken will will judge the sinner in the last day. please try to follow my argument. :smilewinkgrin: :

    John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    This reminds me alot of law and justice. In order for it to be fair, everybody needs to know what the law is in order to obey it or choose to disobey it and face the concequences. That's only fair.
    Indeed, Jesus is more just than any lawmaker/ lawgiver in any government on earth, so it should be right to say, we know by what terms unsaved people will be judged on the last day.
    Will anyone say to God on that day," well, i didn't know what was His word!" God will say it was there on earth.

    Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    and the same record is in heaven!
    Psalms 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

    So... what would this Word be? It's gotta be something that is available to us. An not us only but to people through the centuries from Christ's time onwards. So what would that rule out?....

    Another thought: is Jesus' words in John 12:48 a sub-set of "thy word" in Ps119:89?
     
  19. Su Wei

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    haha... honestly speaking, i don't have a pet answer either...:tongue3: but please do come up with a better answer. :thumbs:
     
  20. Su Wei

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    that would be taking 2cor 13:1 out of context. This verse is not about deciding what is God breathed word that is to be accepted as Holy Scripture!!! I'm a "lay" believer. Don't hoodwink me... :smilewinkgrin:

    And if we were to follow your line of argument, who (and what were their savlation testimonies) were the witnesses who affirmed the NIV ?
     
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