What is sin nature?

True enough, I'm usually of the attitude that its best to be blunt. Then I suppose by my own convinctions, you're right and I should have said something. I was actually agreeing with someone and I didn't want to point out their flaws, but, a pretty big mistake was made and something should have been said. Especially a person like me, should have said something.



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It's not a missconception that's what it says. Yes, a fetus is a human child, just in a different stage of life. But if you really want to press the issue and insist that David was not refering to one inside the womb, which it sounded to me like he was, it changes nothing. When was the last time you heard a new born lie?

I do not dishonor something by calling it what it is. Important, yes, made for a specific reason, yes, but were the Psalms and Proverbs to be taken to the letter? No. But I never said they had no meaning, or were not specific.

If I didn't think Psalm 58 had a specific meaning, why did I mention and insist on one? Also, if you think it does, why do you think it can just be applied to things have have nothing to do with its intent?

I was likening Psalms to Proverbs because they are often written in the same manner. Yes, it wasn't brought up by you. I didn't mean to imply you brought it up, if I did, or seemed to... sigh... I did not separate the two like I should have, sorry.

Anyway, that's exactly what I was meaning about Proverbs, its not meant to be taken word for word literally, but to take the meanings of the Proverbs, which are by no means difficult to understand. They CAN be obayed by humans and CAN be lived by. I suppose I was making a staw man and I apologize again, since you didn't alledge humans COULD NOT do good things.

As to, can one be justified by faith. Yes. But that's not the question. The question is, can one be justified without?

You and I are starting to get on the same page, but think about what you say. Satan himself believes, but it won't save him from anything. You're probably meaning to get at something else, so out with it then, what do you actually mean?

Same answer, but more to the point, Jesus declared forgiven many people who knew nothing of any of that and even declared the theif next to him on the cross, who also didn't know what was going on exactly (had a vague impression it seems), nor gave a sinners prayer, that he would go to heaven. Those aren't my words. A man who knew little of your faith, went to heaven.

If I go on a murderous rampage or something, I think my dad's made it clear to me I'll be disowned. However, I'm not too worried.

Still, the terms I used were more domestic than that. Suffice to say, I believe God will never turn His back on you, but it's a whole other story if you turn yours on Him.

Rejection is based on knowledge. How can one reject that which He does not hear?

Also, I would like to ask you, and I'm sure you heard them before, about testimonies of people who say they came to Jesus after reading the Bible.

No I didn't say that being born again was false and you quoted me so to be that far off what I said... sigh, I guess both of our tempers are flaring right now so we're making mistakes.

Anyway, so really, committment to Jesus as your Lord and savior means nothing? Yep, sounds like we both need to just chill since we're both saying things we don't intend.

No, I don't agree with YOU so you have a hard time believing that I'm your brother in Christ. You've probably been taught much like I was. That all Christians believe certain things or simply are not Christians. Yep, I'm one of those guys who gets upset when Catholics are called lost. They're not. I'm not a Catholic, but at the same time, their belief in and committment to God it not false, nor will God throw it away because they didn't do it the Baptist perscribed way.

My mom has cancer. I have no idea why God is allowing it, but I trust that He will see her through. She will soon die, it's only a matter of time. I believe that He will take her into His arms, and there, she will have eternal rest in a place of no suffering. I await the day when I will see her in a place of no suffering. For now, I send e-mails to her from Korea that consist of me asking her whats going on over there, since to say any of what's going on here, would be against regs. That's all for the best to somehow. I don't know how, but I hope some day my Lord will show me, because He's thinking of something. This much I know. I don't know what, but that doesn't stop me from clinging to Him. Pray for her by the way, it's all not easy, and she really wants to stick around at least long enough to see any grand children.

My country is at war and my president, is being mocked for trying to protect it. I know not why terrorism is allowed, and innocent peope are murdered left and right and those who stand up are called terrorists themselves, all I know is, God has a reason. I do know that God is beyond me, and this is all for the best. Don't ask me how because I don't know. I can make scetchy ideas, have a few inclinations here and there, but I'll never understand.

I know what a terrible thing I am, and I hope in Christ that such a creature can be redeemed. I have faith in Him, that though my actions are terrible, -and of them you do not know, so don't even try- He can and did save me, 2000 years ago. In Him, the only one who can save me, I place my soul. When asked why I should enter heaven, I will say I am not worthy, but that I claim the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, my savior.

I believe in a six day creation, though others insist there is no evidence and so few sane men who also support this view. I care not. The Bible says so, so it is true, I need nothing beyond God's word.

But in the end, according to you, that's all not faith. Or maybe you need to stop making assumptions.

Who is God?

The one true and only Lord of all creation and all that ever was and will be. Course I've never contradicted that so maybe you'd like to start actually reading what people say before making assumptions about them!

For your behavior against me, I forgive you already, you needn't even ask. However, for your behavior against God you should go to Him.

I'm striving with YOU not God. It makes me sick to see a Christian man trying to make people believe that disagreeing with him, is like unto attacking God. Are you some prophet? Are you a Pope? Show me your great sign. If you are a simple man, stop acting like you think otherwise.

 

DHK you didn't respond to a lot of what I said. Do you at least now understand that my faith is genuine? I believe many of your attacks on me were unwarrented. I stated that I woud not demand an apology, so I won't now, but perhaps I would like an explanation. Perhaps I should just let it drop.



Anyway, before we start throwing rocks at one another again, maybe I should just continue with the subject at hand.

The virgin birth was necessary for a sign that Jesus was Holy and not of natural birth. Also, of course, to fullfill prophecy. I do not disagree that Jesus was without sin, but this is because... how do I put this

Jesus is GOD!

Hence, being born of a virgin did not keep Him from sin, who He is, kept Him from sin. God does not sin, Jesus did not sin. Period. No other ingredients needed. Jesus was holy. (Might I also point out, Mary was not.) If a man was involved in the process, Jesus still would have been blameless. Jesus is God. Jesus had no sin because He was and is and always will be, God.

I know you didn't state to the contrary, and I'm not accusing you of such. However, understand, this doctrine that says that Jesus needed to be born of a virgin to be pure, is false. Even if there were a sin nature, of the nature you claim, Jesus simply could have broken it. He broke the law of sin period on the cross, breaking our bondage to it, and broke the law of death, rising from the grave, and some even believe He broke the law of hell, entering it in our place, and returning. (I'm not sure if I believe that Jesus went to hell or not.)

 

I do not mean to say He was not also a man. But at the same time He was God. He was God in the flesh, literally. He was not just a man, clearly. The part of Him that was man was so that He could communicate with men, and so that He could die for men. It does not take away from who He is and was. As God, He never sinned, but that was not because He was born of a virgin. Jesus was God, perfect and holy before the virgin birth, and so, He was perfect and holy after it as well. God became a man, but God did not become a mere man. Do you understand the difference?

 

How could being born of a virgin HUMAN woman make Jesus pure? (Remeber, I alledge He was pure, but for a different much more important reason.) Did she not have the same sin nature of which you are talking? Was it not in HER genes? Do not women have the same nature as men in this case? Is the curse not also on them? Was not ALL creation cursed through Adam?

Jesus was God and Jesus was a man. Jesus suffered like a man, and died like a man. He did NOT sin like a man, because He was God. Jesus did not stay dead, like a man, He rose from the grave. One of the harder points of the trinity isn't it?