What is sin?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Helen, Mar 16, 2006.

  1. Helen

    Helen
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    I don't want examples, please. I would like a biblical definition of exactly what sin is. A lot in a number of threads seems to be hinging on this. Thank you.
     
  2. Me4Him

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    1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

    Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

    Ga 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
     
  3. whatever

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    Any transgression of the law of God.
     
  4. Helen

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    Thank you.

    Now, if someone causes you to transgress the law, is that person responsible at all for your actions?

    Example: A doctor gives a nurse a syringe and asks her to inject Sam, in room 104, as he has another urgent call. She does. It is a poison and Sam dies. Who is responsible?
     
  5. npetreley

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    Helen, this is so transparent. Everyone knows where you're going with this. Why can't you accept what it says in scripture?

     
  6. whatever

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    Both are responsible to some degree. But "predestine" is not the same as "cause" so the question is irrelevant.
     
  7. Helen

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    I am not trying to be obtuse. I am trying to be logical and biblical -- and I do not find the two to be incompatible.

    If God predestines me to sin, that is causing me to sin, for I have no other option. Therefore is He not responsible for my sin? How can I be responsible for what I have no option concerning?

    If I live in a factory town and all the air is polluted, I still must breathe. And if I breathe and then get cancer, am I 'guilty' of breathing? Am I to be held accountable for my illness because I breathed? I am not in control of my breathing.

    According to Calvinism, I am also not in control over any of my actions. Do you blame the passenger in the car which runs a red light and gets in an accident?

    There is no accountability where there is not responsibility, and there is no responsibility where there is no choice. If I have no choice about what I do, then I am not responsible for it, any more than I am for breathing.
     
  8. npetreley

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    Bingo.

    God is ultimately responsible for sin existing. God is ultimately responsible for someone being tempted. God sometimes uses lies to accomplish His will.

    God does not force anyone to sin. God Himself does not tempt people. It is impossible for God to lie.

    These statements are not contradictory. You can twist the concepts in order to make them appear contradictory in order to push free willism, but they aren't contradictory.
     
  9. whatever

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    But you are being neither logical nor biblical. The Bible says that the death of Christ was predestined by God and that it was sin on the part of those who chose to crucify Christ. That's why I keep coming back to that Acts passage. The Bible affirms that God predestined certain acts and that those acts were sin on the part of those who committed those acts.

    Jesus said "temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come". Why, if temptations are inevitable, would the one through whom they come be in trouble?

    You do have choices. You are in control over your actions. You can move to a non-polluted town or you can stay and breathe the pollution. You can stop at red lights or you can run them. The Bible divides predestination from cause, and you should too.
     
  10. npetreley

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    You're asking the same question again.

    Read the answer in the Bible. Hint: The answer is NOT "He still finds fault because He has given you the free will to resist His will."
     
  11. J.D.

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    WHAT IS SIN?
    As was said before, sin is the transgression of the law. When God told Adam to NOT eat the fruit, that was a law, God's law to Adam. If God had commanded Adam to EAT the fruit, and then condemned him for it, THEN God would be unjust. But no, God's command to Adam was "THOU SHALT NOT EAT". If there is no law, there is no sin. It was Adam's rebellion that was activated by the law. Yes, God designed Adam with that free choice, to obey or not obey. As R.C. Sproul put it, he created Adam with the ability to not sin, and the ability to sin; in other words , Adam had true free will, the kind of will that fallen man presumes to have when in fact fallen man has a will that is bound - bound to sin.

    And yes, God knew and planned that Adam would rebel, thereby making redemption necessary and achieving the end of it all, that is, His Own glory through redemption, the glory that angels know not of.

    So we see:

    The beginning: God sought His Own Glory
    So he created Adam
    he gave Adam free choice
    God commanded Adam
    The commandment revealed Adam's ability to sin
    Adam sinned, as he was predestined to do
    So Adam bound the sinful choice of all mankind
    sin necessitated redemption
    redemption brings Glory to God
    The end: God's Glory is achieved from the beginning. He is both author and finisher.

    or, in reverse:

    The End: God's Glory through Redemption
    Redemption is from Sin
    Sin was revealed by Law
    Law was God's command
    the command was disobeyed of Adam's free choice
    Adam's choice was predestined all along
    God created man with free choice
    From the beginning God's Own Glory was the end!

    So then the question becomes, why did God not redeem all of mankind? Because as Calvin put it, for the glory of His wrath or justice, he fashioned vessels unto dishonor. This is in the Sovereign right of God, and we have no rightful reply to it. We only understand that whatever God does IS just, not because it fits our human conception of "fairness", but rather because HE is just, ANYTHING He does is therefore just.

    This is actually very plain and simple. The truth is on us, what will we do with it?
     
  12. J.D.

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    BTW when I say that man's will is "bound to sin", you must remember that man still chooses of his own free will, in a sense. He is free to choose in accordance with his own desires, which fallen man does perpetually by choosing sin, for that is what he desires.
     
  13. Frenchy

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    Question: "How does God's sovereignty work together with free will?"

    Answer: It is impossible for us to fully understand the relationship between God’s sovereignty and man’s free will. Only God truly knows how that two work together. Scripture is clear that God knows the future (Matthew 6:8; Psalm 139:1-4) and is sovereignly in control of all things (Colossians 1:16-17; Daniel 4:35). The Bible also says that we have a free will. God does not force us or cause us to do anything (James 1:13-14). We are completely responsible for our own actions (Romans 3:19; 6:23; 9:19-21). How these facts work together is impossible for a finite mind to comprehend (Romans 11:33-36)..

    People often take one of two extremes in regards to this question. Some emphasize the sovereignty of God to the point that human beings are little more than robots simply doing what they have been sovereignly programmed to do. Others emphasize free will to the point of God not having complete control and/or knowledge of all things. Neither of these positions are Biblical. Again, though, in this life we will never be able to fully understand how God’s sovereignty and man’s free will work together.

    What are we to do then? First, we are to trust in the Lord, knowing that He is in control (Proverbs 3:5-6). God’s sovereignty is supposed to be a comfort to us, not an issue to be concerned about or debate over. Second, we are to live our lives, making wise decisions in accordance with God’s Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17; James 1:5). There will be no excuses before God for why we chose to disobey Him. We will have no one to blame but ourselves for our sin. Last but not least, we are to worship the Lord, praising Him that He is so wonderful, infinite, powerful, full of grace and mercy - and - sovereign.

    Here is the link http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:IUWYcIK0aIUJ:www.gotquestions.org/free-will-sovereign.html+free+will+god%27s+will&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=8
     
  14. Me4Him

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    God's "CALL" enables/draws man to respond, so why are many called, but few chosen???

    Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:

    Mt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
     
  15. Calvibaptist

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    God's "CALL" enables/draws man to respond, so why are many called, but few chosen???

    Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:

    Mt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
    </font>[/QUOTE]1. Why do you keep asking the same question that we have answered over and over again?

    2. Why do you place two verses side by side that are in two completely different contexts written by two different authors about two different situations expecting us to think that they were written in the same context one after another?
     
  16. J.D.

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    Me4, good questions there, I'm getting tired tonight and your questions deserve a quality answer but I'll try to do it.

    "Call" must always be understood as either a general and audible call, as when the gospel is preached in a crowd of people, some elect and some non-elect; or a "effectual call", which is a call that comes directly from God, and is not audible. 1 Cor 1:9 God [is] faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. Notice "Called...by whome"? By God.

    Many/Few - terms of relative comparison, as is All/Some, however many/few being less descriptive. I don't have the context in front of me, but I believe the many called would be those generally called, and the few chosen would be those effectually called.

    If you've set a trap for me, go ahead and spring it and let's see what happens.
     
  17. Me4Him

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    God's sovereignty and "free will" are easy to understand, God's not willing for any to perish, but man reaps what man sows.

    God, in his "foreknowledge", predestined the tibulation period because of Israel/world's rejection of Jesus,

    but "suppose" Israel/world believed in Jesus,

    "IF" the tribulation was "predestined", it couldn't be stopped, but "Foreknowledge" can change, you think God didn't "know" what was going to happen when he created the world??

    Ge 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

    Don't you think God would also "Repent" of the Evil he had planned for the trib if "everyone" "believed"???

    Ex 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

    Calvinist ofter quote verses with "predestination" mentioned but none of the verse speak of being predestined to be saved/lost,

    I really don't think they know the differences between "predestination" and "foreknowledge", they have to "mix" these to prove their doctrine.

    God has explained to mankind the "consequences" of both disobedience/obedience, that's the gospel, his "LOVE" was expressed to the "WHOLE WORLD" through Jesus not coming to condemn but to seek and save that which was "LOST", that includes the whole world, and the reason Jesus died for the sins of the whole world.

    God most certainly will "HONOR" Jesus's death for "EVERY SIN",.."IF"... they believe.
     
  18. Me4Him

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    God only calls through the "Spirit", man's words are heard with the ears, God's call is heard with the "heart".

    God's call to one is as "effectual" as the next, he's no respecter of persons with his "calling".

    Your' quoting "Theologians", not "Scripture". :D :D
     
  19. Calvibaptist

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    God only calls through the "Spirit", man's words are heard with the ears, God's call is heard with the "heart".

    God's call to one is as "effectual" as the next, he's no respecter of persons with his "calling".

    Your' quoting "Theologians", not "Scripture". :D :D
    </font>[/QUOTE]Back to your favorite subject - Reading Comprehension! You said he is quoting "Theologians", not "Scripture". But the only thing he even came close to quoting was 1 Corinthians 1:9. Paul is both a theologian and a writer of Scripture. [​IMG]
     
  20. Helen

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    Jesus said "temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come". Why, if temptations are inevitable, would the one through whom they come be in trouble?

    Because WHO they will come through has not been predestined.

    You do have choices.

    I have been saying that all along.

    You are in control over your actions.

    Yes, I know. That is why I can be and will be held accountable for them. God has allowed me that control. His sovereignty is big enough for that.

    You can move to a non-polluted town or you can stay and breathe the pollution.

    Ain't it nice to be rich enough to have that choice? Some of us have had that option in our lives, and some haven't.

    You can stop at red lights or you can run them.

    My example was regarding me being a passenger in the car that ran the red light. I had no choice there. My question was regarding whether I should be punished for being in the car whose driver ran the red light.

    The Bible divides predestination from cause, and you should too.

    I do. Because the predestination passages are all regarding the future of those who believe and the process by which that will be achieved. They are never about God choosing WHO will believe from eternity past.
     

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