What is Sin?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Eladar, Jan 6, 2005.

  1. Eladar

    Eladar
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    I've come to the conclusion that according to the story of 'original sin', sin requires two aspects:

    The knowledge of good and evil + an action which is against God's will.

    In other words, simply committing a sinful act is not enough. One must also know the difference between good and evil. I've come to this conclusion because it was only after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil would Adam and Eve die (the spiritual result of sin).

    My wife doesn't like this, so I decided to throw it out there and see how it flies.
     
  2. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    I believe that sin is doing something thats against Gods will.

    However I sometimes wonder if people think there is any sin at all, because of the "saved by grace and not of works".

    I know that we are saved that way, it's nothing we do to earn it. But then there are the people that get all a twitter if you say, we should follow this commandment and not steal stuff. They know that we are not supposed to steal, but then you can't call it a commandment because then you screw up their theology!!

    So, IS there any such thing as sin in the eyes of the once saved always saved crowd?

    Working for Jesus,

    Tam
     
  3. Eladar

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    If that is all, then why did eating the fruit bring sin?
     
  4. DHK

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    1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    They transgressed God's law.
     
  5. DHK

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    Writing to Christians John said:

    1 John 1:8-9 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
     
  6. SpiritualMadMan

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    I appreciate DHK's quote. Right On! Amen!

    For the Christian, IMHO,
    Sin is 'Missing the Mark'... And, that Mark is to put on the Mind of Christ and be like Jesus...

    ? Anyone here, *there* yet?

    Didn't think so... :D

    A primative might say that 'Foot Washing' is a clue of how Jesus views a Christians Condition....

    He who has had a bath only needs to have his feet washed...

    Just as it was impossible to walk anywhere in Jesus' day without getting your feet dirty...

    It is also quite difficult to keep one's Spiritual Feet clean while walking in such a 'degraded' world...

    We walk where we have to... As Believers we don't go looking for mud puddles to play in...

    Which highlights yet another difference between a believers sin and those of the 'lost'. We don't look for excuses to play in sin/with sin...

    One last difference is that we are shooting towards that mark, the target... The lost doesn't even know where (or who) the target is...
     
  7. CapturedBC

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    The answer to "What is sin?" in the Westminster Shorter Catechism is, "Sin is any lack of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God."

    I like that definition because it reminds us that we sin not only when we do those things we ought not do, but also when we fail to do the things we should do. After all, the greatest commandment and the second (Love the Lord with all our hearts, souls, minds and strength, and to love our neighbors as ourselves) are both about what we should do, not about what we shouldn't do.
     
  8. tamborine lady

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    So, if someone commits a sin on purpose, and never repents of it, when he dies, will he go to heaven?

    If your answer is yes, then it's a free for all, and nothing has to be obeyed after one gets saved.

    I know that can't be true, so according to OSAS what is the answer? [​IMG]

    Peace,

    Tam
     
  9. music4Him

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    My Daddy (Baptist Evangalist) taught once a person comes to the age of accountabilty (12-14? depending on mental maturity). If you know that something is wrong and you do it any way its sin.

    Now that you got me to thinking about sin...... here is the list of 7 deadly sins taken from this website, but there is also the ones mentioned in Proverbs. (I hope it was alright to copy and paste it?) I found some of the history about it interesting. [​IMG]
    http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/sayings.html#sins..........
    _________________________________________________________________
    The Seven Deadly Sins, having come under recent scrutiny at the hands of the 1995 film, Se7en are:

    ()Gluttony
    ()Greed
    ()Sloth
    ()Lust
    ()Vanity
    ()Envy
    ()Wrath

    They are, though certainly sins that Scripture condemns, not to be found in Scripture in any such grouping. The seven sins originated in the writings of medieval theologues and have been remarked upon by such noted personages as Pope Gregory the Great, Thomas Aquinas, Geoffery Chaucer, and John Milton.

    Also of interest is a Scriptural list that bears at least some similarity to the historical list of seven. Proverbs 6:16-19 reveals:

    These six things the Lord hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
    A proud look,
    A lying tongue,
    Hands that shed innocent blood,
    A heart that devises wicked plans,
    Feet that are swift in running to evil,
    A false witness who speaks lies,
    And one who sows discord among brethren.


    Now while these are clearly sins despised by the Lord, none of these are able to keep one from salvation if he will only repent and believe.
    ________________________________________________________________
     
  10. Briguy

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    Tam, if a person is saved and commits a sin and does not repent, he is still saved. When the person was "born again" they were taken from a placement of earthly (death) inheritence and placed in a Heaven-bound (life) inheritence. They are new and changed. Picture being picked up from earth and placed on Mars. There would be no way back and so it is with being saved, there is no way to get back to being unsaved - That is grace!!! WHAT A MIGHTY GOD WE SERVE!!! He is greater then our Sin and sins!

    Now for the unsaved the sin just keeps them heading in the direction they are already heading!!.

    Obedience comes with maturing. It is slow and tedious, just like with children, but it does happen. That is why Paul started with milk and went to meat.

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  11. music4Him

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    Hi there Briguy! [​IMG] Haven't seen you post in a while. Hope all is well with you and yours.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Here is a couple of verses that leads me to believe that maybe OSAS doctrine may not be so.

    John 15:2
    Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

    Sin seprates us from the Lord so if someone gets saved (acually say the sinners prayer and get baptized and the whole nine yards and live a clean christian life for years) then later on temptation leads them away and they sin and stay unrepentant and they stop bearing fruit then is there a possibility they lost it?

    2Peter 2:20-22 ~
    For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
    21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
    22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    Music4Him
     
  12. BobRyan

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    1 John 3:4 tells us that sin is transgression of the law. In Romans 7 and in Romans 4 Paul tells us that law defines sin and "Where there is no law - neither is there violation".

    It is precisely BECAUSE God's Law remains and defines the perfect standard that we ARE sinners (Romans 3).

    Sins comitted in ignorance are a special case as you point out -- for James tells us "to him who KNOWS to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17.

    However that does not mean that we do not accumulate the debt of sin even when we sin in ignorance. Luke 12:47-48 shows us that BOTH the one who KNEW his master's will and sinned and he who did NOT know it -- will "owe" suffering for sin -- but the one who KNEW - will owe far more than the one who did not know.

    Romans 3 tells us that our sinful nature -- is in rebellion against God. That is a nature we are born with.

    All these problems must be "sovled" in the ONE Gospel plan of salvation that God has had in place since the fall of Adam --&gt; The New Covenant. This is the covenant man enters that involves forgiveness, acceptance, the new creation, God's law written on the heart etc.

    There has only been ONE Gospel in all of time and it perfectly addresses the "sin problem".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. BobRyan

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    Those are excellent. But you forgot the sower and 4 kinds of ground -- and the Matt 18 warning to Christians about "Forgiveness revoked".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. Eladar

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    music,
    This is where I was trying to get. Evidently, there are those who disagree and believe that a 2 year old can sin.

    One other thing, could someone explain to me how this topic has anything to do with OSAS?
     
  15. music4Him

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    Thank you Bob....

    Well I guess we fish a little differntly? I just throw out a few chucks of bread out on the water at a time to see if I can get any fish to bite if they do they get the whole happy meal. [​IMG]

    But Bob does also mention a notable part in scripture. Matthew 13, Mark 4, Luke 8

    Peace~
    Music4Him :D
     
  16. music4Him

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    Eladar,
    To me it like some think that since they are saved they are covered therefore go and do as they please. (I may not of said that exsactly right), but isn't that a sin?
     
  17. Eladar

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    Yes, that would be a sin. But the problem is that I've never actually come across anyone who actually says that. I've run across people who try to put those words into others' mouths, but I've never seen anyone actually make that claim.

    In any case, I fail to see how this has anything to do with needing both a sinful act and the knowledge of right and wrong in order for a sinful act to be considered a sin.

    DHK,

    Are you saying that you disagree with me?
     
  18. Briguy

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    Hi M4H, I am doing pretty well. I took some time off BB but now I think I will come around time and again jsut to fix doctrine that appears broken (HA HA HA). Hope you too are well!!!

    On John 15:2 It is always easy to take one verse and make it prove what you want. A verse alone is like a table with one leg, it can't stand. There are many things happening as Jesus speaks to His disciples, His actual friends in the world. He pours out His heart to them as he gives them hope and sets up their ministry. So, I could say that that scripture is simply not meant for me and you and that could end the discussion but I will say a little more anyway. God's chosen people, the Jews, were attached to the vine. It was their "position". If you were born Jewish you were born "chosen". What happens with the Jews is the ones that did not have "faith" or abide in Christ/God were taken off the vine and burned, in the figurative language used. We, as gentiles were added to the vine with the death and ressuection of Christ. We by postion are on the vine but will individually be taken off the vine and burned if we do not "abide in Christ, and He abide in us (which goes hand in hand). Hope that helps. I will deal with the other scripture you used in a little bit.

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  19. Briguy

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    M4H, The verses from 2 Peter are also not an argument against OSAS. I was going to include the whole chapter but figured I would just comment and you can just read it when you like. The chapter starts out with the people being spoke about in the verses you used. They are FALSE PROPHETS and FALSE TEACHERS. These are not believers gone bad they are ones who have never believed. If an apple is plastic, it never was an apple. It is a false apple, not a real one gone bad, which would be a rotten apple (different subject, Ha Ha). Anyway, in the chapter the folks in question are called: Deniers of the Lord, Brute Beasts, Spots and Blemishes, Having full eyes of adultery, servants of corruption, beguling unstable souls, cannot cease from sinning, ---- This is not speaking of the Christian who is tempted by Satan to shoplift and then does it. These were evil teachers who aimed at keeping people away from the truth of Christ. They denied the Lord altogether. Peter uses the harsh language throughout the chapter and ends with a zinger right from the scriptures themselves. No, the verses you used are not about a falling Christian or one who has lost salvation.

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  20. Eladar

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    Nice to see you Brian! I'm glad you're keeping this thread alive. I am correct in believing that you used to be on the other side of the fence on this issue?

    Nils
     

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