"What is the "baptism of fire"?"

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by awaken, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. awaken

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    The "baptism of fire" is only mentioned in two places in the Bible:

    "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." (Matthew 3:11)

    "John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."" (Luke 3:16)

    John the Baptist said that Jesus will baptize people with the Holy Spirit and with fire, and there are several interpretations of what this might mean:

    Some people believe that Christians will automatically be "baptized with fire" at the same time that they are baptized with the Holy Spirit (such as the "tongues of fire" that came onto the disciples at Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4). In other words, being baptized with the Holy Spirit and with fire is essentially one act (one baptism).

    Another interpretation is that Christians need to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit after salvation, but we also need to receive a separate "baptism of fire" which will "set us on fire" for the Lord (or for evangelism, etc.). In other words, the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of fire are two separate baptisms for Christians. A similar view says that Christians will be refined by "fire," which would also mean that the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of fire are two separate baptisms for Christians.

    A third interpretation is that Christians will be baptized with the Holy Spirit, but non-Christians will be "baptized with fire" (i.e. the "lake of fire" in Revelation 20:15). In other words, Christians will never receive the "baptism of fire."

    So which view do you hold or is there others?
     
  2. awaken

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    Let's look at view (interpretation) #1 first. Notice that when the disciples received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost it was accompanied by "tongues of fire":

    "On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."" (Acts 1:4-5)

    "When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them." (Acts 2:1-4)
    One problem with view #1 is that the "tongues of fire" at Pentecost are never referred to as "the baptism of fire." In addition, there is never any mention of fire when other people received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
     
  3. awaken

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    The New Testament describes the "tongues of fire" at Pentecost, but this is never referred to as the "baptism of fire." Further, in all of the other descriptions of people receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament, there is never any mention of a "baptism of fire" happening at the same time. Therefore, we have no Scriptural support for the idea that people are always baptized with fire when they are baptized with the Holy Spirit. In addition, we can't point to any Scripture passages which show that the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of fire are meant to be interpreted as a single baptism
     
  4. SolaSaint

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    Context Context...look at the verse immediately following both verses mentioned. It seems very clear that baptism of fire is God's wrath unpon the unregenerate. Also these verses are in reference to the Pharisees and Saducees. So it is baptism by the Holy Spirit for the elect and fire for the unregenerate.
     
  5. awaken

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    So you agree with interpretation #3?
     
  6. awaken

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    "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:15)
    The "lake of fire" is never referred to as the "baptism of fire" in the New Testament, but it turns out that there is Scriptural evidence which supports the idea that the "baptism of fire" refers to the fire of judgment.

    I was told to look at the context in which John the Baptist mentioned the "baptism of fire":

    Matthew 3:4: "John's clothes were made of camel's hair, and he had a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey."
    Matthew 3:5: "People went out to him from Jerusalem and all Judea and the whole region of the Jordan."
    Matthew 3:6: "Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River."
    Matthew 3:7: "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?"
    Matthew 3:8: "Produce fruit in keeping with repentance."
    Matthew 3:9: "And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham."
    Matthew 3:10: "The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."
    Matthew 3:11: ""I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."
    Matthew 3:12: "His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.""
    I noticec what this passage says in the context of the "baptism of fire." First we see one group of people who confessed their sins, and then we see another group of people whom John referred to as a "brood of vipers," so in John's audience there were two kinds of people (righteous people and unrighteous people). With that in mind, consider the parallelism in this passage. Notice that we see righteous people and then unrighteous people (verses 6-10), followed by descriptions of a baptism for righteous people and a baptism for unrighteous people (according to view #3) (verse 11), followed by the separation of righteous people and unrighteous people (verse 12), all in the same context. Based on this consistent parallelism between righteous people and unrighteous people, the most likely meaning of "baptism of fire" is that it refers to the fire of judgment for unrighteous people.

    So I agree with #3 too!
     
  7. kyredneck

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  8. awaken

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  9. kyredneck

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    Yes. But keep it to the immediate audience that the prophet was speaking to, 'that generation' of Jews, i.e., "even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees".

    Baptism with the Spirit and baptism with fire = 'Behold then, the goodness and the severity of God'...Ro 11:22.
     
    #9 kyredneck, Mar 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2013
  10. Yeshua1

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    point 1 , as the church came at pentacost with thsoe signs of the Holy spirit of the cloves of fire and the Tongues, and now ALL are baptized by the Holy spirit into chrit and the Church when saved from above!

    NOT a second act after saved, but something all saved experience, for God is a consuming fire, and we are united to jesus and to His body now!
     
  11. awaken

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    I have no idea what you just tried to get across! What view do you hold #1-2-3??
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    Point1, in that the Holy Spirit came when He formed the church as if Fire, and he baptized ALL saved into the Body of Christ when saved!
     
  13. awaken

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    The New Testament describes the "tongues of fire" at Pentecost, but this is never referred to as the "baptism of fire."
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    looks like the others posters were correct regarding this!

    "W. E. Vine noted regarding the "fire" of this passage: "of the fire of Divine judgment upon the rejectors of Christ, Matt. 3:11 (where a distinction is to be made between the baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and the fire of Divine retribution)".[2] Arndt and Gingrich speak of the "fire of divine Judgment Mt. 3:11; Lk. 3:16".

    Baptism by fire From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So the baptism in/by Holy Spirit to the saved, experienced by us when ALL saved and placed into the body of Christ by the HS, but that of fire to the lost!
     
  15. awaken

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    So you agree with #3 now??
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    With fire applies to the jusgement of god upon those rejecting jesus, but baptism with HS to ALL of us at rebirth, for the HS places us into the body of christ than "Baptism"
     
  17. awaken

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    Boy, you are hard to follow sometimes!
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    basically, the fire of jesus is judgement to come on ALL those who reject Him, and the baptism is for ALL of us saved by him!
     
  19. awaken

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    That is what I said in my earlier post!
     

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