What Is the Best Rendition of Rom.1:5?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by TCGreek, Aug 5, 2007.

  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    1. I'm not after the entire verse, only εις υπακοην πιστεως, "unto obedience of faith."

    2. Here are several versions on this part of the verse:

    NASB: "to bring about the obedience of faith"

    NIV: "to the obedience that comes from faith"

    TNIV: "to faith and obedience"

    KJV/NKJV: "for obedience to the faith"

    ESV: "to bring about the obedience of faith"

    NET: "to bring abou the obedience of faith"

    A footnote in the NET on the Greek under consideration:

    3. I tend to favor the reading in the NASB, ESV, KJV/NKJV, because the thought behind this prepositional phrase signifies that the prepositional phrase should express purpose: "Through whom [Jesus Christ] we have received grace and apostleship," then we have a eis to set off the phrase, which at times signifies purpose, and is clearly the choice here.
     
    #1 TCGreek, Aug 5, 2007
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  2. John of Japan

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    Old A. T. Robertson takes it as a subjective genetive and compares it to Rom. 16:26, which looks like a direct parallel to me. I think the KJV/NKJV rendering is fine. Other versions translating "for": Young, ASV, WEB, Darby, etc.

    I usually think of eis as indicating direction, whether used for physical direction or metaphorical direction. In this case, since apostleship is the previous word, it makes a lot of sense to me to translate with "for."
     
  3. TCGreek

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    1. If you were to look at a range uses of eis you will surely find that that metaphoric direction signfies purpose.

    2. And when eis is used in the place of en, it hardly has motion toward in mind. Let's not limit the versatility of eis, for eis even have the nuance of "against."
     
  4. Deacon

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    James Dunn writes: “the obedience of faith” is a crucial and central theme, structurally important in understanding the thrust of the letter.”

    but he also adds that there are other opinions, including Herman Ridderbos’ in Paul: An Outline of his Theology, 237 (1975) who states:

    “The genitive construction is probably to be taken as embracing both the sense “response which is faith” and “obedience which stems from faith”—“interchangeable ideas”

    [Dunn, J. (2002). Vol. 38A: Word Biblical Commentary : Romans 1-8]

    Rob
     
  5. TCGreek

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    So both the objective and subjective genitives here, which would be considered the plenary genitive (Dan B. Wallace). Not bad!
     
  6. Rippon

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    NLTse : so that they will believe and obey him

    ISV : to the obedience that comes from faith

    NJB : the obedience of faith
     
  7. TCGreek

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    Both the ISV and NJB take the genitive as objective, while the NLTse takes it as subjective.

    Where do you stand?
     
  8. John of Japan

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    Exactly. And that is why I went for "for." The NASB, "to bring about the obedience of faith," sounds clumsy and forced to me. "For" is concise and gives the meaning of purpose.
    That's why I said "usually," not "always." :type:
     
  9. TCGreek

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    I missed your subtlety. :laugh:
     
  10. Rippon

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    I stand on neutral territory between conservative biblical scholars who have different takes on this issue . ( How's that for an escape clause ? )
     
  11. TCGreek

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    How can you be neutral?
     
  12. John of Japan

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    Your courage is underwhelming, thou mugwump. :type:
     
  13. Rippon

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    This is not my forte . I do have settled convictions on a whole range of matters , but I leave these technical issues to the experts . Carry on Sirs .
     
  14. TCGreek

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    I'm hardly an expert in these matters. I leave the expert and technical issues up to John; I just put in my 2cents worth of Greek from time to time.
     
    #14 TCGreek, Aug 6, 2007
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  15. Charles Meadows

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    I'll go with the appositional genitive meaning here.
     
  16. TCGreek

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    Hmmm...Interesting choice! What's the texual basis for the appositional genitive, "obedience, namely, faith?"
     
  17. Charles Meadows

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    Paul desires for his preaching to result in the gentiles believing. Their obedience to the gospel consists of faith. I think this comports well with the use of the same phrase in 16:26.
     
  18. TCGreek

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    1. Douglas Moo is one of the few commentators that I really enjoying reading. He says this about taking the phrase as appositional: "It improperly collapses obedience into faith, whereas in Paul they are usually distinct ideas."

    2. His choice is to leave the phrase straightforward, though ambiguous, "'obedience of faith,' and to interpret the words in the phrase as mutually interpreting: faith, if genuine, always has obedience as its outcome; obedience, if it is to please God, must always be accompanied by faith."

    3. Moo clearly takes the genitive as subjective, "obedience that flows from faith."
     
  19. TCGreek

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    1. I see credence for Moo's position in Romans 15:18, "I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done" (NIV, emphasis mine, εις υπακοην, "to obedience")

    2. It must be assumed that this obedience springs from faith (1:5), interestingly among the Gentiles.
     
  20. John of Japan

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    Ooh, Moo! I had to read the entire 941 pages for a grad class. Excellent, but occasionally overly detailed and thus incredibly boring. :sleeping_2:

    At any rate, as in 1:5 he has in 16:26 "for the obedience of faith." Concerning his translation, he says, "It is very literal, my purpose being to give the non-Greek-speaking reader as much sense as possible of the structure and ambiguity of the underlying Greek" (The Epistle to the Romans, p. 32).
     

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