What is the Bible?

Hello, Rev. Joshua:

I don't know whether you are a Minister of some church or not, but for the sake of debate, I will assume you are.

So here is where I have a problem with you as a minister. How do you preach about God and Jesus to a church group when you don't believe but very little about God and the bible yourself? I actually hope it is just a title you use rather than you misleading people to only believe what you think is fact.

God Bless...........Alex

 

I apologize for being so blunt but the part that concerns me is, your statement above that indicates that you do not believe it is inspired by God via man to be the arthors without any errors. To me, this KILLS the whole bible in your way of thinking and thus has to have an influence on your members to see it as you do which to me is totally wrong. There is no GREY areas in the bible. All is either white(inspired) or black(written by man with no inspiration from God).

God Bless...........Alex

 

Reminds me of the crowds calling for Barabbas and the Crucifixion of Christ.
13"Crucify him!" they shouted.
14"Why? What crime has he committed?" asked Pilate.
But they shouted all the louder, "Crucify him!"

Sounds like the townspeople who got wind of witches in the local community. Sounds like a lynch mob chorus before the hunt begins. Sounds like the Nazi's gathering the infidel Jews. Sounds like Hamas as they prepare to destroy the enemy.

Justification, I think you may be on the wrong board, try a more militant one. No one here will help you pass your so called "judgment" on fellow Christians.

 

Of course Joshua will answer with his version, but I would like to input mine as well.

You are making a wrong assumptions here. Let's say that God came to you and told you a story. He then told you to write it down for others. You then decide to give a brief history of how you came to talk the God that night before telling God's story. Of course you are human and while inspired by God to write the story, you might have left out a part or included parts that shouldn't have been included, but you got the main Idea of the story God told you into your text among your other side issues. Now 2000 years later we pick it up and find sever mistakes you included but still believe the core and main Idea you wrote about. We are since "saved" by that Idea but find a falsehood here and their.

Maybe you felt that people wouldn't believe your story and you made up some events that would impress others but we are no longer impressed by such things. We don't need such things to believe the core of what you were inspired by God to write. Maybe other changed it during the years that past. Maybe terms were used to mean different thing over time. etc etc.

So now we have a Bible which was inspired but contains errors. We can examine the Books and determine what text have obvious errors and those we can discount, we then find other parts that could mean 2 or more different things and if we can't get to a final answer by scripture against scripture, those have to be left in the "maybe it happened" but maybe not, maybe it means this, maybe it means that.

But as long as the core which we hold is true, we can maintain belief that the Bible is the recorded events of God on earth and "contains" the Word of God" but also contains error.

In logic class, if X contains both true and false statements you can't discount X as all false. Likewise, just because A contained in X is true doesn't mean B contained in X is true.

[ August 20, 2002, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

Brother, Joshua:

It's very late here but thought I would add a little more...food for thought.

I will have to say that all Christians, my opinion, have pondered, at some point in time, how the seas could be parted, how Noah got every creation aboard the ARK(my pet one is all the insects), the bibical account of Joshua in the belly of a whale and on and on. My human logic wants scientific proof but my heart says all is possible with God. I brought this up because there are many in-between-the-lines mysteries that scripture doesn't explain BUT that doesn't take away from the Word of God. As one Christian said, the bible would take years to read and understand if all the ways God did this was part of the Bible. The bottom line is, that isn't important other than to believe it happened. God only showed us what is important, not how he did it as per a scientific explanation. Sometimes our human logic will really muddy up the waters. I am far from a schhlar or even a good lay person(sad to admit at age 65), but I started my studies a little late and my memory is a problem now, so I often repeat myself. I do enjoy debates/discussions but one person on another thread(RUHT)really got me upset, along with many others. I personally thank the Moderator for closing that thread as it was fixing to become real ugly. The main scripture in the Bible for Christians to remember, is to have the faith of a child and accept it for what it is and go on. I would like you to elaborate on how you teach without letting them know your feelings about the bible not being divnely inspired, or at least some of it. So far, I would have to call you a liberal Christian, even though you are a Baptist, not that all Baptist are moderates or conservatives. I consider myself to be conservative to some degree.

God Bless.............Alex

 

Reminds me of the crowds calling for Barabbas and the Crucifixion of Christ.
13"Crucify him!" they shouted.
14"Why? What crime has he committed?" asked Pilate.
But they shouted all the louder, "Crucify him!"

Sounds like the townspeople who got wind of witches in the local community. Sounds like a lynch mob chorus before the hunt begins. Sounds like the Nazi's gathering the infidel Jews. Sounds like Hamas as they prepare to destroy the enemy.

Justification, I think you may be on the wrong board, try a more militant one. No one here will help you pass your so called "judgment" on fellow Christians.
[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Ok everyone, we have our first martyr. Post-it, how can we ever make it up to you ?

We have merely pointed out the heresy in your posts, and you resort to the name-calling. We are calling your posts lies, and you call us Nazis. Sounds like you might be the one on the wrong board. The bible gives us the authority to point at your lies, and call them as such.

Don't expect us to stop. Like it or not, most of us here are Bible Thumpin' Devil Haters.

 

Hello, post-it:

I guess we were both adding a post at the same time!!

I will make this short as you can review my comments to Joshua.

Really, just a question: Doesn't this story about the writters leave out the inspiration by God? When they ventured to add their thoughts, wouldn't God have said to them..NO NO?
God Bless........Alex

 

If you will read through Acts, you find that the Apostles basically took a vote (decided on their own) what sin should be considered sin as well as other church doctrine. I don't recall any prayers, no Angels, no words coming down from heaven, no review of scripture, just some suggestions that got thrown out and others that got accepted.

It was just a call on their part and they went with the one that made the most sense. On the other hand Jesus died for our sins no question, he arose from the dead, no question. Many witness to this one event and people who saw it were ready to die to get this fact out. Some parts are concrete, while others are up for debate such as the virgin birth. The miracle part is that the important parts of God's mission and message to us can't be questioned. God's Word is solid.

 

I guess we have a definition problem with the word "inspired". It's too bad the word can mean several different things. Do you think that was God's intention when he could have said all scripture came from God/are God written/are originated from God/his spoken words/ his written word/are God guided/ or any other term that would have not been as ambiguous as "inspired"? At most I think the word inspire means "To be the cause or source of; to bring about".

 

Thank you DHK. Yes, it was worth it!

 

Hi Joshua! For me, the Bible cannot be as you described it. Your description would mean that the Bible was NOT inerrant. It would mean that the Bible is made up of stories created by men, not GOD. This would be unacceptable to my logic, and unacceptable according to the LORD’s logic too (Matt. 15: 9, Mark 7: 7). Biblical inerrancy is a REQUIREMENT.

The only reason we know of “salvation” is because the Bible tells us of it. The only reason that we “know” about Jesus is because the Bible tells us of HIM. The only reason I know my sins are forgiven is because the Bible tells me they are forgiven. If the thing that tells me these truths, is itself UNTRUE, then the salvation described in it would be based upon an untruth.

Faith developed upon “fables” is no faith at all - just a cruel brainwash. Why not study any other “fiction” book, and worship the main character in it? (for example, why not worship Huck Finn, or the Wizard Of Oz?). We don't worship these fairy tales because we KNOW they are untrue stories. We worship the LORD Jesus because the BIBLE tells us to and because it is PERFECTLY TRUE.

By definition, if something has “errors” or “flaws,” then it cannot possibly be a source of truth (and a pile of papers are no longer a pile once it has been scattered all over the floor). Any first year law student understands that if the evidence is “flawed,” then you have no truthful evidence to pursue a case (or else a travesty of justice will occur if you pursue one with “flawed evidence”). The Bible MUST be inerrant, otherwise our CASE for salvation would be based upon such “flawed evidence,” and a travesty would occur.

Furthermore, the Bible MUST be 100% inerrant. If “some” parts are true, and others part “not,” then how can the “true” parts be trusted absolutely? They couldn't! Who will determine what are the true parts from the false parts? Men? GOD FORBID. That would bring us back to Matt. 15: 9 (and make us Roman Catholics too boot!). One lie corrupts a whole truth (like a cheating spouse corrupts a marriage).

Jesus believed the Bible was inerrant (much of what HE said were quotes from it!). So many times, the LORD said, “it is written” or “What saith the Scriptures.” The LORD believed in a literal Genesis Noahic flood (Luke 17: 27), he believed in a literal destruction of Sodom (Luke 17: 29), and many more like examples. John 17: 17 is very clear that salvation comes through the “word” – which is the Bible. How can that salvation occur if that “word” is laced with error? It can’t.

Thanks be to GOD, the Bible IS inerrant. Our salvation - the one we read about in the inerrant Bible assures us this is so. If it were proven that the Bible was NOT inerrant, then by definition, the salvation I claim, which I learned of in the Bible, would be based upon ERROR. Faith would then be folly. Joy would then be a deception.

The absolute belief in Biblical Inerrancy is the singular MOST important issue that separates the TRUE believer from the others. If I am wrong – then it won’t matter (since the “fable” of eternal damnation and sin, being untrue, would have no power over me).

latterrain77

 

If the whole world got together and said, "The Bible is NOT the inspired, inerrant, infallable word of God!"--folks, listen--that wouldn't change the fact that the Bible STILL IS and always will be the inspired, inerrant, infallable word of God. God is up in GloryLand getting a good laugh out of all of the Liberals on this board!!

 

Amen!

Gal.5:[9] A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
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I Cor. 5:[7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

 

I was in court most of yesterday so I missed this thread. Joshua, your understanding of the bible is essentially my understanding, and, from what I have read, the basic understanding of every reputable Christian bible scholar. There may be some minor differences, but from what I have read among MAINSTREAM bible scholars from across denominational lines, that is a fairly serviceable summation of the bible.
I haven't read all of the responses to your post but I imagine you have been burned in effigy already and called a number of names. Oh well, such is life.

 

Amen, blackbird, with the exception that I am not sure God is laughing...

 

Actually, He is - Psalm 2.