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Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Skandelon, Aug 6, 2004.
I'm seeking to find out why some believers are Calvinistic and others are not.
I don't think Calvinism or Arminianism are 100% right!
Neither do I, its just a poll to get a general read on why some people tend to one way and others don't
I voted the third. No offense and no disrespect, and one's not being a true believer does not mean he is a child of hell. He could be a child of God, but he doesn't accept God's written down assessment of man's fallen condition and of His holiness and sovereignty.
Or, his doctrines are simply what he grew up in, drummed into him from Sunday School through Divinity School. Any number of factors.
But an unbeliever is not necessarily unregenerate.
Sorry, I forgot the fourth lessor know catagory of regenerated but not a believer.
Me neither! I prefer what the Bible has to say instead of men.
Those who voted that only Calvinist go to heaven or are really saved are putting words into God's mouth. Scripture tells us what we need to do to be saved and believing the teachings of certain mankind isn't included!
calvinists nor arminians view God sufficiently reconciling his entire creation.
proving their Christ hasnt completely defeated death.
proving their Christ has not ushered out the old earth and ushered in ther new and its completely changed form.
proving that God has reconciled some as to himself as well as satan reconciling some to himself.
both are saying Lord, Lord..but lord of what?
lord over what? certainly not death nor the law.
certainly not lord over man.
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
certainly towards both of arminians and calvinists. this statement is wrong. their lord will not nor can not reconciled all things to himself.
1Ti 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and [before] Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
certainly towards both of arminians and calvinists. this also must be a wrong statement for God will certainly not quicken all things. especially when both groups accept the power of the free will of man is greater than God and demonstrate by refusing the quickening power of God.
blatent errors with no excuse. (Rom 1:25)
by Diane Tevagia:
Then reject the Words of Jehovah God of the Old Testament, and blasphemously ascribe it as teachings of men:
Reject also the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ and blasphemously assign them as teachings of mere men:
And revise Paul's epistles as well as those of Peter and John, because they contain man made teachings:
So far only Pinoybaptist and one other person thinks a non-Calvinist is not a Christian.
From Pinoy's church website:
5. We believe that God chose a definite number of particular persons of the fallen posterity of Adam in Christ before the foundation of the world to eternal salvation in heaven. The reason for this choice is wholly of grace, and is unconditional on the part of the creature. (Rom. 9:11; 11:1-6; Eph. 1:4; 2:1-10; 1 Thess. 1:4; 1 Pet. 2:9-10).
Wrong. Election has nothing to do with being a Christian.
A Christian is one who belongs to Christ, not by virtue of any silly sinner's prayer, or by virtue of any theology he has, or by geography but, by virtue of the fact that he is among those Christ shed His blood for.
You read our Statement of Doctrines with hooded eyes and a brain made foggy by your hatred of Calvinists and those of the Doctrines of Grace.
Let me hood it some more and fog your brains some more.
You're not going to like what I say because it robs you and your kind of more glory and gives it all to God, in that you will have no part, none whatsoever in the salvation of others.
The Doctrine of Election unavoidably implies that there are people in heaven right now who never even heard the gospel, who never even heard the Name of Jesus, whose theology while here on earth would probably have been totally antagonistic to the gospel, cultic and so on.
Because God's children are scattered all over the earth, divided by socio-political, socio-economic, and theological barriers, all man-caused or man-made.
The Bible says He created the Book of Life before the foundation of the world, and that He wrote the names of His chosen on that book.
Christ came to save them, and save them He did,
and He continues to regenerate, quicken His own, with no help from you, missionaries, preachers, pastors, Sunday School Teachers, Bible smugglers, Bible teachers, or the lay worker who goes out to distribute tracts and 'win souls' from sunup to dark.
He needs no one to help Him do what He covenanted with Himself to do. He needed no help when He went to the cross, He will need no help to bring His people home.
Yeah.... I read that junk on your church website when you first joined and filed it in the trash heap back then.
Diane Tevagia said:
It may be junk to you now, but, that's very clearly the inescapable conclusion one can come to once God enlightens one's spirit on the extent of His electing mercy.
Well it looks like its about half and half with 6 saying that it is a decision of man and the other 6 saying its not. (2 of those by voting that all will become Calvinists if they are true believers)
That tells me that 6 people are contradicting what they believe by even being on this board. Either we're not elect or God is going make us Calvinistic so get out of here and stop wasting your time! Its not like this is evangelism where you have to do it because "God said so."
Another problem is people poking their heads in here, pretending to be neither Arminian nor Calvinist, so they can bash Calvinists and call what these brethren believe junk. That's Christianity for you.
This is a question concerned non-calvinists believers.
I gave you a straight answer. calvinists who hold to such doctrines as limited atonement do not follow the spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ.
they follow a lord who has no intention of reconciling all things to himself.
they follow a God who has no intention of quickening all things to himself.
they deny the plain statements in Gods word concerning such future absolute truths.(1 tim 3:16; col 1:20)
the difference between a calvinist who believes in limited atonement and a true believer is that the true believer follows a lord who is willing and capable of reconciling and quickening all things to himself..whatever the effort, or timespan necessary.
And we glorify Him only.
When Calvin was assembling his doctrines. he overlooked the principle of the grain of wheat.
1Co 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Co 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom...duh! Is anybody listening?. the flesh must first die and be resurrected into another form.
Our flesh is placed into death and springs up into a new life. all creation follows this very same principle.
it is created in flesh . it MUST die. and it is created into something new. into spirit
all men are made after the similtude of adam. they all die. they are all made anew after the similtude of christ.
but again theres this "mystery" mentioned. God is holding something from those blind and not capable of seeing.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
mysteries are only given to those God intends on sharing this truth. apparently it is not towards those selfish thinking people who think their better than others and that only they deserve salvation and others deserving damnation.
remember this...God had full intentions of destroying EVERYTHING he originally made. as he himself plunged it into unrighteousness,
as he also had full intentions of resurrecting everything anew in righteousness. this is his pattern of creation. first into death second into new life.
GH, thanks for the praise. .at least your reminding these guys...if you didnt praise Our Lord..inanimate rocks eventually would praise Him for they are as mankind is. placed into death and resurrected a new earth.