What is the doctrine of Calvinism?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by James_Newman, Mar 16, 2006.

  1. James_Newman

    James_Newman
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    I would like to have someone explain to me what exactly it is that Calvinism teaches, and how this relates to the Gospel and the forgivness of sin. I will add that I am not an Arminian. I believe in the free grace gospel that Jesus died for the world, that whosoever believes will be raised up on the last day, and I believe in a judgment for those who are saved that will result in reward for faithful service and temporary chastisement for unfaithful stewards who will be ashamed at the Lord's coming, but nevertheless will ultimately be saved on the last day.
     
  2. whatever

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    I'm not sure that anything you posted is contrary to Arminianism. Anyway, here's a web page that contrasts the two systems. If you have any specific questions just holler.

    Calvinism and Arminianism contrasted
     
  3. Calvibaptist

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    Here is a good statement put out by the elders at Bethlehem Baptist Church where John Piper is pastor.

    What We Believe About the Five Points of Calvinism

    Also, keep in mind that this is just where Calvinism touches soteriology. There is much more to Calvinism than TULIP, although I don't believe everything Calvin believed.
     
  4. npetreley

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    This is a very good read, thanks. I like this part in particular and it (unfortunately) bears an uncanny resemblence to some of the arguments put forward here against Calvinism.

     
  5. James_Newman

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    So if Jesus only died for the 'elect', and God has only willed a certain number of people to be saved, what does this passage in 1 Timothy mean?

    1 Timothy 2:1-6
    1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
    2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
    3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
    4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
     
  6. Calvibaptist

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    You obviously have not been following this debate for long. This passage has been thrown around and debated already a few times. Here is my response.

    In verse 1 Paul tells Timothy to urge the believers to pray for all men. Then in verse 2 he tells him what he means by "all men." What he means is "for kings and for all those in authority." In other words, he is not talking about every single individual, he is talking about types or groups of people.

    In verse 4, the same phrase (all men) is used. Since, in the immediate context, it means all types or groups of people and not every single individual, then this is true of verse 4 as well. God wants all types or groups of people to be saved. This, in fact, is what we see happening as the gospel of the kingdom is preached throughout the whole world and at the throne in Revelation 7:9 are seen men from every nation, people, tribe and tongue.
     
  7. Calvibaptist

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    Incidentally, if this passage means that God desires every single individual to be saved and Christ gave himself as a ransom for every single individual, you have a major problem. You have a God whose will is thwarted and He doesn't get what He desires. You have a Christ who paid a ransom for people who still go to hell. It doesn't say He paid a potential ransom, it says He paid a ransom.
     
  8. James_Newman

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    So you see this as Paul saying we should pray like this:

    Dear God, I pray that some kings will be saved, and some people in authority, and some bakers and some butchers as well. All types. Amen.

    Surely Paul means all men when he says all men, while specifically including heathen kings and rulers. Otherwise he would have said all types of men. I have always been of the opinion that when my understanding contradicts what the scripture says, the problem is with my understanding, not the scripture.
     
  9. James_Newman

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    Incidentally, if this passage means that God desires every single individual to be saved and Christ gave himself as a ransom for every single individual, you have a major problem. You have a God whose will is thwarted and He doesn't get what He desires. You have a Christ who paid a ransom for people who still go to hell. It doesn't say He paid a potential ransom, it says He paid a ransom. </font>[/QUOTE]This is a major problem?
     
  10. Frenchy

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    Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon his looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-8). This doctrine does not rule out, however, man's responsibility to believe in the redeeming work of God the Son (John 3:16-18). Scripture presents a tension between God's sovereignty in salvation, and man's responsibility to believe which it does not try to resolve. Both are true -- to deny man's responsibility is to affirm an unbiblical hyper-Calvinism; to deny God's sovereignty is to affirm an unbiblical Arminianism.

    This i believe to be true
    It is called a mystery, a Paradox one which MAN will never figure out or understand, no matter how hard they try. so why bother?
     
  11. Brother Bob

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    Hebrews, chapter 2

    "9": But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    Titus, chapter 2

    "11": For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

    "12": Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

    "13": Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

    "14": Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
     
  12. npetreley

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    Isn't it funny how free willers pound on words like "all" and "every" when it comes to salvation, but never seem to come to terms with the same kinds of words when used to describe total depravity?

     
  13. whatever

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    Providence too: "In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory."
     
  14. Brother Bob

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    netpretreley:
    Those scriptures are to men and women, not children and I am not a Free-willer. [​IMG]
     
  15. Brother James

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  16. Me4Him

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    People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. :D :D
     
  17. npetreley

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    People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. :D :D </font>[/QUOTE]I'm perfectly comfortable with both sides of that equation. Are you?
     
  18. 4His_glory

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    </font>[/QUOTE]Amen and amen. I agree. It is also of interest that they insist that "all" must mean every person in the world, none excluded, each time it is mentioned in Scripture. Well how about this passage:

    "Then Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins." Mat. 3:5"

    Was all of Judea baptized by John?
     
  19. J.D.

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    And this also: "I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people"

    How about Herod? Did he find the news of the birth to be joyous?

    How about the Pharisees? Did they joyously received Christ?
     
  20. MRCoon

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    Yes...All who believed in those areas were baptized.

    Yes...good tidings of great joy to all people now whether they chose to accept it as good news is their free will. Herod could have rejoiced like he lead the Wise Men to believe he was, but he chose hypocricsy.

    I guess I'm a "Free Will"-er if I'm to understand that by this it means that a individual has a free will to choose or reject Christ. Not a predetermined election that this individual would choose or not choose Christ.

    Pre-knowledge is not Pre-election...when dealing with an omniscient God we can't force Him to our limited level of 'rational' thinking.
     

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