Featured What is the Minimum amount of theology needed to get saved?

Icon, you started out well with "capital D" ......after this you relapsed once again.

 

I understand that Paul was writing to the Corinthians, that is why the book is called 1st Corinthians.

Nevertheless, Paul said that he preached first of all, how Jesus died for OUR sins. Now that would apply to every person who heard this letter.

In further support, I showed Hebrews 4 that says the same gospel was preached to both believers and unbelievers. The difference was not in the message preached, the difference was some chose not to believe.

It is Calvinism that attempts to wrest scripture to prove Limited Atonement.

Truth is, if Limited Atonement is true (it isn't) then you have no idea if Jesus died for you personally Icon.

Just because you believe you are one of the elect does not make it so. As I said before, you could believe a glass of poison is water and safe to drink, and it will kill you. What you believe does not determine fact.

So, tell me Icon, how do you personally know YOU are one of the elect if Jesus only died for some people?

Please explain that.

 

This video is fairly accurate if Limited Atonement is true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ckoCBtXvU

I watched a video of a Calvinist street preacher about two weeks ago, wish I could find it again, he would not tell people Jesus died for them. He kept saying Jesus died "for his people".

So, how is a person to believe such statements apply to him personally? They can't.

 

Winman

You ignore what I offer to you once again...he is not talking to the corinthians in general.....he is writing to the elect in cornith, the called, the church , the sanctified.....unless and until you acknowledge this you will remain ignorant of the truth here.

It applies to those he said it did...not everyone it was according to the scriptures a Covenant death

No...you further misunderstand who Hebrews 4 was speaking about...like I said if I spent time correcting every mis-reading of your posts It would be a full time job.
It is Calvinism that attempts to wrest scripture to prove Limited Atonement.

It is true, and certainly I can.

Because I am a sinner and know that Jesus died to save sinners.He has made Himself known to me, drawing and saving me by the means of the Spirit of God quickening me,granting me the gifts of repentance and faith...so that I can savingly believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

I was not looking for it...I fought against it, but God had already set His love on this sinner...it was life from the dead,a complete and radical change.
Winman....it was impossible that I would ever believe...but God had mercy on me. I was so convicted of my guilt...no..it is not even a question at all.

 

How does one know that Christ died for him and he is one of the elect ? Answer, 1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into this world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. A sinner is a precious person to behold, because the Holy Ghost has made him so. And the Publican, standing afar off would not lift up so much as his eyes up unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. Before God makes alive, He first kills and lays you low. Before God gives light, He first reveals the darkness of your nature. Before God reveals grace to your soul, He first reveals to you your sinful depraved nature. It is one thing to say yea, ok i'm a sinner in agreement with someone, it's another thing to know down deep you are a sinner. God does not reveal this to every man, only the elect.

 

Look, if Paul wanted folks to understand Jesus only died for the elect, that is exactly what he could have said. No, he said that the gospel he preached to them was "first of all, how that Jesus died for OUR sins". This is the message he preached to them BEFORE they were saved. He did not know if they were elect or not.

Isn't that so? Please answer this honestly if you dare.

1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

These persons weren't saved when Paul preached the gospel to them, yet he told them "Jesus died for our sins". This is what he delivered unto them.

No, he preached to these Corinthians that Jesus died for "our" sins BEFORE they were saved and before he could know if they were elect or not.

You will not admit it, but you are refuted by scripture.

It is amazing that Calvinists must always explain scripture to folks. Hebrews 4 says the gospel was preached to those who believed and those who did not believe. They heard the same gospel. The only difference was some believed, and some chose not to believe. And the warning in verse 1 makes no sense if Irresistible Grace is true. So yet another point of Calvinism refuted by scripture.

Baloney. If Jesus died for only some persons, you have no way to know if you are one of these fortunate persons. Just because you believe you are one of the elect does not make it so.

This supports Universal Atonement, not Limited. All men are sinners.

Your faith could be false, Jesus said not every one who saith unto him Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

Believe what? That Jesus died for SOME men? What men? YOU? You have no idea if Jesus died for you or not, it is impossible to know that if Limited Atonement is true.

No, read 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 again. Paul tells us the gospel he preached to these Corinthians BEFORE they believed, and he told them that Jesus died for "our" sins.

Wouldn't you like to know that Jesus died for you personally? You can know this if you reject this false doctrine that is keeping you in the dark.

 

Winman

Listen...you are unable or unwilling to understand this passage...look at your own verses you just posted...in verse 1..he calls them brethren...he says they received the truth...he said they stood in the truth...by which ye are saved
1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

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according to the scriptures...which you ignore.

it does not say that....you insert that..but that is not said here.

not by any that you have posted

,

there is no universal atonement

 

here for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7lwBZtoXe8

 

Well of course he calls them brethren NOW, he is RECALLING when he preached the gospel to them. Now he KNOWS they are elect because they believed on Jesus.

But when he first preached to them he did not have any idea if they were elect or not, yet he told them that "Christ died for our sins". You are caught, but you won't admit it. You are more dedicated to Calvinism than the truth of scripture.

Funny you mention scripture, because it supports Universal Atonement, not Limited.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Yes it does, Paul tells us exactly what message he and they had received, that Jesus died for "our" sins. Plain as day.

I didn't think you would listen.

Then YOU do not know if Jesus died for you. Good luck, hope you are one of those fortunate elect persons. :wavey::wavey::wavey:

 

"That teaching! That teaching! Yes, that teaching, a man's teaching, Calvin's teaching; but not the Bible's teaching. You stick with Calvin Icon, I will stick with the Bible, thank you very much. I do accept the Bible's teaching, not "that teaching."

You have a habit of making statements you can't back up with Scripture.
If faith originates from God (as far as the unsaved are concerned) then demonstrate it through the Scripture.

If you had proven it I have never seen the proof. If you have the proof you could give it. But you can't. God does not give spiritual gifts nor the fruit of the Holy Spirit to unbelievers. To think otherwise is foolishness.
Demonstrate through Scripture that God gives faith to the unsaved that they, with God's faith, will put God's faith in Christ. Ridiculous!!
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God."

It is scriptural?
You believe that God, in some mythical way, comes down and injects the unbeliever with His big hypodermic needle full of faith that he might believe? This is "the truth that Calvinists believe, and I do not" In that you are right.

You haven't shown me. You haven't given me any Scripture at all. You just keep on repeating the same mantra without any evidence.

Garbage. Give scripture--actual scripture with references; not just vague allusions like you have in the past. Demonstrate through the Word of God what you have just said. Don't simply post opinions. Why are you parroting Calvin without Scriptural evidence? He is not God.

Demonstrate that God gives faith to the unregenerate. Where does it say that in the Word of God? Regeneration and salvation take place at the same time--simultaneously. And yet the unsaved needs the power of reason to believe; the ability to make a choice. He is not a robot in the hand of God. It sounds like your belief is akin to the Islamic tenet of fatalism.

Either man believes of his own faith (as I believe), or he believes with "God's faith" (as you believe). There is no in between.
You just denied your position.

 

The minimum amount needed is to simply believe Jesus's promise of eternal life. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

DHK

Yes. Jesus was the God man...he and the apostles and prophets did teach this.....so you can say man made ...but God given.

Calvin did see these truths ....yes, and all the puritans, and the reformers, and some right thinking baptists:thumbsup:

It is still in the bible DHK...you might not see it...but we all see it quite plainly.

Calvin believed what he believed...I believe what I believe.....You cannot show one time when I have quoted calvin this year...can you. But you think that if you put words in my mouth it will call attention off of your many posted errors...but it does not...we still see them.

Actually no you do not.You pick and choose what you want, and ignore-
"that teaching."

I can back up everyone of them, and do....you just cannot welcome the answers when given to you.

I have directly answered this to you several times....you ignore it, or try and brush it off.....do not make me embarass you by combing through the archives and showing this very thing....why should that be necessary...:thumbs:

I can post it all again as I said...perhaps I will when someone new really wants to see the truth...you claim to have not "seen"it. You saw it and rejected the verses and proof...like you do with the carnal christian heresy.

remember ...you said you did not have time to listen , or read the proof...
That is on you...then I quoted several texts....you ignore them all/

I answered you on this thread...you are just being obtuse:thumbsup: I told you a person must first have the Spirit before fruit of the Spirit is produced.

29 because to you it was granted, on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also on behalf of him to suffer

the word for granted ...is graced

14 and a certain woman, by name Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, worshipping God, was hearing, whose heart the Lord did open to attend to the things spoken by Paul;


8 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.





8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift,

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sadly...you do not believe it...and yes I do...not as you say a Mythical way, or a hyperdermic needle....I believe it happens just like Jesus said in Jn 3...the Spirit moving as he will....that is what i believe DHK.....

You like Nicodemus do not believe it...I do DHK:wavey:
5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;

6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;

8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'

9 Nicodemus answered and said to him, `How are these things able to happen?'

10 Jesus answered and said to him, `Thou art the teacher of Israel -- and these things thou dost not know!

11 `Verily, verily, I say to thee -- What we have known we speak, and what we have seen we testify, and our testimony ye do not receive;

12 if the earthly things I said to you, and ye do not believe, how, if I shall say to you the heavenly things, will ye believe?

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Do not lie DHK...or I will pull up from the archives to expose your falsehood.

i have done it in the past, I do it here again...

Show one time where I have quoted Calvin...go ahead..show one time...or stop lying about this....PUT Up...or SHUT UP DHK..where have I quoted from calvin???

We have taught you this very thing. Do not make as if you are just discovering this and teaching something new....we presented this to you months ago.

;

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This is your personal and failed philosophy that is contrary to scripture;
19 for it hath been written, `I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the intelligence of the intelligent I will bring to nought;'

20 where [is] the wise? where the scribe? where a disputer of this age? did not God make foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 for, seeing in the wisdom of God the world through the wisdom knew not God, it did please God through the foolishness of the preaching to save those believing.

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You are pathetic DHK...I just answered you the other day and said none of us believe in fatalism...but because you cannot answer any of us...you keep trying to stick this and other errors on us. If you cannot answer without this 0th commandment violation ...maybe you should post in the entertainment forum. No one believes in fatalism here ...nobody...stop saying it.
can you stick to the truth of what we post? Not youe foul speculation as to what you want to think we post.

I never said God's faith...I said God given faith and ability...is it possible that you not twist something for a change???

you say;
QUOTE]All men have faith[/QUOTE].
yet scripture says-
2 Thessalonians 3:2
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Faith is an instrumentality ...saving faith is God given at salvation

Again with this pompous garbage...Who says I do not have the correct definition of death...I have posted it many times, and before you did.

 

Loved this Question

Jesus never said, believe in [some amount of] theology, and then me and you will be saved!

Theology is not needed, in fact it is theology that oftens messes up ones innocent approach to accepting the Lord! Don't get me wrong...theolgoy has it's place in religious study, but not in the act of salvation!:thumbsup:

 

This is what I mean about TOO much theology...

.
yet scripture says-
2 Thessalonians 3:2
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.


Faith is an instrumentality ...saving faith is God given at salvation




Again with this pompous garbage...Who says I do not have the correct definition of death...I have posted it many times, and before you did.[/QUOTE]

All this back-and-forth bickering over theology will not eman one thing when you stand before Him at judgement! All this bickering will not bring revival or the lost to Him. All of your stands versus his stand will only create wider divisions between people that are supposed to be working as one for the making of disciples.

That Great Commission Message did not say to go and make Baptists, or Calvinists, or Armenians. I believe the words were, "Go make disciples!"

This is why so many people have avoided the narrow path and taken the highway to hell. They couldn't get past all the theology and in my opinion, theology is nothing more than religious theories. Theories that have caused numerous disconnects and spiritual partitions between the church to the point that many have left and other will never come! The blood of many will be on the hands of those who continue to put their theology before the Lord!

 

That would be the holy spirit.

 

:godisgood:

 

Actually Jesus did say believe in some theology. Like who He is, and why He came, and in His Gospel. Like it or not that is theology.

There are some who say they have no theology, but as soon as a person opens their mouth and starts talking about Jesus, the Scriptures and what they believe about all of that, they've expressed their theology, and most of it can be aligned into one camp or another.

 

What does an infant have to know to be born?

We are saved by a Person, not a doctrine.

 

From the jail at Philippi:

Jailer: Sirs, what must I do to get saved? or: Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

One of these questions is not correct. They are not saying the same thing.

We have watered down election and predestination with: repeat this prayer after me--now you are saved and other forms of easy believism.

Salvation is of the Lord. One is saved by the Grace of God. He has provided everything for salvation including the faith to believe. Eph. 2:8-10.

Preach The Word. Pizza lockins do not help.

See Ephesians Ch. 1.

vs. 4: Acording as he hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: vs. 5, having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will...

Salvation is of the Lord.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

Well Done Brother:thumbsup: