What is the point of this verse?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Nov 1, 2006.

  1. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    What is the point of this verse?​




    Is this saying Abraham never sinned?

    What is the point when the Bible clearly says ALL men, both the saved and the unsaved sin.

    ALL SIN..
    ************

    Paul said he had to fight with sin...

    John says that the saints sin...
    **************

    So what does this verse mean? Did Abraham never at any time sin after he was a believer?

    Was this a sin?
    Heb 11
    When one lies is this against Gods Law? Is this sin?



    James says...
    Does this mean that Abraham was just as guilty of the whole law, just because he lied? If so...how do we make this verse fit the rest of the Bible?

    ????

    Did God lie when He said all saints sin?
     
  2. Deacon

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    [Genesis 26:5]
    The quick answer - - - NO!

    Reading throught the account of Abrahams life earlier in Genesis you can clearly see that Abraham had his faults.

    But he walked a life of faith.

    How else could one say that David, a murderer and adulterer walked with God?

    Both repented of their sins and walked the faith walk.

    Each of us, Abraham (before the LAW), David, (under the LAW), and us (under Grace), are saved by that same faith.

    See Hebrews 11:8-20 [LINK]

    ...let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, Hebrews 12:1 ESV

    Rob
     
    #2 Deacon, Nov 1, 2006
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  3. 2BHizown

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    There is no man who doesnt sin, including all since Adam!
    That doesnt detract from the fact that Abraham was an obedient servant of God's, fulfilling His orders!
    They all sinned, even David, who was a man after God's own heart. David was still an obedient servant of God.
    Moses sinned but was still an obedient servant, fulfilling God's orders.
    Rehab sinned and was very useful and also in the lineage of Christ.
    Same for us who are obedient servants of God. We're not without sin, but we do know all our sin, past, present and future is under the blood of Christ, as is Abraham's.
    There are some who have been of greater use to God than others. In a great house there are vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor. Some do wonders for God and some just do the best they can!
     
  4. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    I agree..."walked in a life of faith"
     
  5. Brother Bob

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    I agree and because he repented and walked the faith walk is why God could say:

    Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

    Do you all agree that God is telling the truth about Abraham or is it false?
     
  6. Brother Bob

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    where is that?
     
  7. 2BHizown

    2BHizown
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  8. Brother Bob

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    Keep reading!

    1 John, chapter 5

    "16": If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

    overeating is sin.

    Unbelief is sin.

    That which is not of faith is sin.
     
    #8 Brother Bob, Nov 1, 2006
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  9. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    I agree...:)
     
  10. Brother Bob

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    I agree

    Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

    If God gives a command to a person or persons do they hear/receive that command, are they made a party to receiving

    that command, or does God give commands to people who don't have no idea that God has commanded them to do

    something and then punishes them for not keeping the command even though they knew not of it?
     
    #10 Brother Bob, Nov 1, 2006
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  11. GordonSlocum

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    Sin is sin on either side of salvation.

    For the believer OT or NT a sin is proof that we are by nature sinners.

    Being a lost sinner or a saved sinner does not change sin. The penalty of sin for the lost is hell then the lake of fire but for the saved sin is not punished with condemnation but chastisement.

    Sin is dealt with regardless of the state of the person the difference is condemnation for the lost and discipline for the save.

    If you will see sin in this light you will never again wonder where God is on the matter.

    The Christians that says he has not sin is a liar.

    God Bless
     
  12. Brother Bob

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    Gordon;
    Do you believe Christians can and do worship Golden Calves for their God?

    What about "That which is born of God cannot sin"?
     
    #12 Brother Bob, Nov 2, 2006
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  13. Allan

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    Maybe not a golden calf but golden jersey football players, or baseball, or pool, or tv shows, or Baptist Board, or ect... Anything can be an idol and an idol is ANYTHING that even for a time is as or more important than God. Do we reject God and follow after these idols is the question. Can a christian lie, lust, envy for these are no diffent than that of idolitry sinse there is not difference to God in the measure of one sin over another except unbelief or Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

    Our spirit is clean and untouchable by the taint of sin and it is this that can not sin. Yet that does not mean we can not fall short of Gods desire for us to live Godly in these fleshly and corrupt bodies of death which war with our spirit. And we all know what falling short means - Sin. But not sin unto damnation but sin that leads to reproof or correction. We are to (as Paul states) bring our bodies into subjection, and he states we are to renew our minds. What would the purpose of this be if we can not sin. If we can not sin HOW is there a war in our members?
     
    #13 Allan, Nov 2, 2006
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  14. Brother Bob

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    Allan;
    I am one who does not believe that the saved commit adultery for instance, do you believe the do or do you believe we bring our bodies under subjection by the Spirit of God? I would hope someone on here believes that Christians are a new creature. I know we do wrong (sin) but not Adultery or murder or such sins as those. We will not keep people in our church who do such things. I believe I would be doing them a wrong by keeping them in the church and make them think it is alright to do those things. If they are put out at least they have a chance to repent and be saved for sure and not be the "blind leading the blind".
     
    #14 Brother Bob, Nov 2, 2006
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  15. webdog

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    BB, is it man who states which sins are worse, or God? I don't see where Scripture states that there are certain sins that count more heavily than others. The only unforgiveable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. You state a Christian cannot commit some sin...why? Is the sin nature somehow diluted once we become believers, where certain sins are unable to be commited? I don't see that in Scripture anywhere. True, we do become new creations...but that is the fact we have added a new nature, not removed the old. David, the apple of God's eye commited adultery and murder...together. Lot (declared righteous while in S&G) offered his daughters up to be molested by the crowd. Peter swore he didn't know Christ...three times. These are only a couple examples, but would you keep these out of your church?
     
    #15 webdog, Nov 2, 2006
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  16. Brother Bob

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    We are kept by the Holy Ghost. That is the difference between the Law Covenant and The Grace Covenant. How can anyone believe if you want to get away with sin then get yourself saved. It just does not make sense. Peter still was not filled with the Holy Ghost. David was not filled with the Holy Ghost. I know you have seen in the scripture that "there is a sin and there is a sin unto death". I am sorry and have found out that I sure am in the minority on here but we in our church do not believe in committing such sins as drunkness, adultery etc. I personally, if I committed adultery they would not have to deal with me, I would leave the church and try to get right with God and then come back. That is how I believe a Christian is.
    We do not have a member among thousands from Michigan to Fla. that believes a child of God can commit adultery. I am talking about all the churches that are the same faith and order that we have and we correspond with. I don't really know how many ministers who have been excluded for adultery. Also, there are a lot of Primitive, Freewills, United and others around me who believe exactly as I do. This is "new" doctrine to me. We believe a christian can sin but sins like getting angry, failing to fill their seats, arguing with fellow christians, even saying bad words as long as they don't use God's name if vain. We would withdraw from someone who was using God's name in vain. My experience with the church is the more you allow the farther they want to go. If the church don't have a stopping point there is no limit to where men will go. Also, there are those who come among you that are of the devil to seek out your liberty and take peace from you.
    Simply, I believe in a clean church, a perfect church inwardly but outwardly we will have to wait until the resurrection. We rejoice openly in our church and I think it has to do with the life we live. I don't have to fear a real christian. He is not going to covet my wife, or steal from me or hurt me. He may get mad at me but by and by he will come back around and make it right.
     
    #16 Brother Bob, Nov 2, 2006
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  17. webdog

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    BB, I'm trying to get a better understanding of what you believe. You do believe there are sins a believer cannot commit? You mentioned drunkeness as one. If a deacon or elder you knew for a long time got drunk on an occasioin, would you consider him to not be a true believer? Do you think it's possible for a Christian to physically consume alcohol or other medication? I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious.
     
  18. Brother Bob

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    First of all let me say that I consider you to be one of the good things that I have encountered on the board.
    Now, If someone was drinking and it became known to the church that person would be asked to have his name removed from our fellowship. Medication is no problem at all. I knew of one old brother who told me personally that he tood a shot of whiskey at night to sleep, well it never went any farther than me but if he was out in public drunk then he would of been dealt with. If someone commits adultery and it becomes a known fact then that person will be dealt with. I have to admit that I was shocked to find so many believed that members of the church could be caught in the act of adultery and keep their membership by saying they were sorry. I don't believe the church can forgive sin of adultery that it takes God and as long as he is a member and doing those things then he is a hypocrit and must remove himself from the church in order to get right, myself included. I wouldn't want the church to keep me if I was committing adultery. It has always been that way in our church and I expect it to be that way until the Lord comes again. I know pretty well how you believe and don't think you would be happy in our church at all. If I was in a church that allowed adulterers to stay as members, I would be so distraught that I would leave.
     
  19. Jarthur001

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    I agree. Grace is what man needs. David sinned and was called a man after Gods own heart. No one but Christ lived a sinless life, before or after salvation. Now, in James we a believe will now show his love by walking close to God. James says..."show me your love"...just as Christ told Peter..."if you love me...feed my sheep".

    But Peter denied the Lord.../..That is a pretty strong sin.
     
  20. Blammo

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    Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

    How are you going to know if someone commits adultery in this way? Is a person who looks at a woman to lust after her less guilty than one who commits the physical act?
     

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