what is, the prayer of salvation, exactly?

Not entirely true.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

Wild guess here...Joel Osteen?

 

Yes it is true. And why folks won't believe it still puzzles me.

Here it is in black and white:

They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Well I guess your statement was correct after all, because I said "Paul" and it was "they". Please accept my apology. Nowhere in there does it say anything about verbalizing what you believe and yet if he believed he was going to be saved.

So that statement IS true that we don't have to "say" anything to be saved.

Now either there is a contradiction in Scripture based on the Romans account that you put forth or it's not talking about what you say it's talking about. There's only one legit possibility, because Scripture does NOT contradict itself.

 

I was led in the sinners prayer when I was saved, is that bad?

 

Scripture must interpret Scripture. If Paul stated in other places that confession must be coupled with belief in order to be saved (which he did), and Jesus said repentance and confession is necessary (which He did), then repentance and confession are necessary along with the belief in order for Salvation to be granted to anyone.

 

Was that prayer from your heart? or from man's words? Did you truly mean the prayer? Did your belief bring about a confession that Jesus Christ is Lord?

 

yes the prayer was from my heart and it changeed my life

 

Couldn't agree with you more. That is why I have said on a different post that all Scripture MUST be looked at in Light of what is said in Acts 16:30-31, because it is the ONLY text of scripture where a person asked what they must do to be saved. And as such the context is CRYSTAL CLEAR.

So everything speaking of believe, faith, saved, salvation, etc. etc. has to be compared to that text. And if it doesn't line up or mesh then it has to be understood in a different context.

But the question is what is the context of those passages, because CLEARLY they can't be talking about the same salvation discussed in Acts 16:30-31 because Paul said that salvation come through believe/faith only (Eph. 2:8-9).

This should be the simplest matter to look at in all of Scripture, yet you folks try and make it so complicated for some reason. I just don't understand that.

It is a simple message.

 

Then I must ask where was your repentence? I what way before God, were you repentant?

Second, you stated 'uh-huh' to the question of trusting Jesus as your saviour. In what way were you trusting him, if you never asked it of him? My biggest question is, how can one claim salvation if one never has set down before God regarding the work of God toward salvation? If we repent, there must be one to whom we are repenting (that is prayer) and it is to Him and Him alone that this is done. Also if we are trusting in Christ to save us of which repentence brings us to this point, we are in a prayful state toward God for mercy and grace on us, a sinner in need.

Now if you believe that just answering "yes" to those questions saves a person, that is no different than beileving say just repeting a prayer saves a person.

Your above story is almost exactly the same thing that my pastor did when I was 6 and can say it was almost a verbatum conversation you just set forth, and I was crying and sincere. However it wasn't until I was 17 that I truly was saved.
NOw don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you weren't but answering questions only allows the pastor to get an idea of if you might understand what is going on. I did and was able to even give the scriptures where the answers could be found. But I personally was not saved until I was 17. We must deal with God not man nor mans questions about our understandings. It is God whom we have offended and need to repent toward, and it is God alone who can save us who do not deserve it. And it is why I believe the people in scripture always begin with - what must "I" do.. Belief and repentence go hand in hand, you can not have one with out the other. I take that back, you can but it is neither true belief nor repentence.

But you seem to be over looking something very important. He did not ask what must I do to be saved, but to be baptized. A huge difference which means there was likely some more to the conversation that was not recorded. But even if there wasn't in Philips estimation the Ethiopian eunuch salvation was not at issue to him. (this is why I presume there was more to the conversation)

Again to presume all was recorded is an error on our part, especially when scripture is specific that repentence is part and partial to salvation. Belief and repentence are two sides of the same coin.

Here my point is made excellently. God calls men everywhere to repeent and certain men clave to him and believed. You can't have a true salvation experience without both playing a part.

 

Sounds like your advocating 2 salvations

 

Give the man the microwave!

 

Up until that moment, I had never thought of myself as a sinner who needed salvation. I'd heard gobs of sermons on hell, on being saved, but I'd never thought about them in relation to my situation. It was on that Sunday morning that the Holy Spirit showed me my sins, and my need for a Savior. I saw my sins as Jesus sees them and I was horrified. That was conviction of sin we talk about. Suddenly all those sermson I'd heard began to make sense. I believe it was the HS who drew me down the aisle to my pastor.

All those sermons on God's work in salvation that I had heard but didn't relate to them, now meant something. God had been preparing me even when I didn't know it.

I don't see a whole lot of difference between saying "I'm sorry for mY sins, I confess Christ as Lord and I believe he rose from the dead" and saying, "Lord, I'm sorry for my sin and I believe died for my sin, and rose from the dead. I confess you as my Lord."

I agree, just saying the words won't get it. My pastor didn't ask me to say some words. He asked questions and I answered. I could just as easily have nodded my head.

I think we're in agreement here. I've seen a large number of people who have come to question that childhood conversion experience. Sometimes they'll look for some assurance that it was valid. Other times, they're dead sure that it wasn't. I think it's dangerous to try to give anyone who doubts assurance about those matters. So I say to them, I don't want to know what happened back then. I want to know where you are spiritually today, right now. The answer will be revealing.

Exactly. I think if there are any differences between us in this area, they may be more semantic than actual.

 

If they are talking about the same thing how do you then work out the seemingly obvious contradiction in the statements made in Acts 16:30-31/Eph. 2:8-9 and elsewhere in Scripture?

 

I agree...........

 

So... just what context are you espousing here?

 

I'm not espousing anything other than contextually they can't be speaking of the same thing.

Take Paul's statements alone for a moment. He says that we are saved by grace through faith and also says if we believe on the Lord Jesus we will be saved.

Then he makes this statement in Romans. that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

These two statements do not mesh with each other. One set says believe and nothing else. There is no speaking involved or anything and salvation results from the beleive.

And then Paul makes a statement requiring a confession for salvation.

If these two statements are speaking of the same topic Paul has contradicted himself. We know that is an impossibility.

So I will ask you the same thing I asked Allan. How do you get around this contradiction if you are going to say they are speaking about the same topic contextually?

 

Believe in your heart? confess with your mouth? have faith?
Are they speaking about the same topic?
Do you understand salvation, soteriology?
Is it of grace? or of works?
I think you espouse another gospel, a gospel of works? Is that correct?
It sounds like it. It sounds very much like the Church of Christ, although I am not accusing you of being a member of one.

The Church of Christ has a gospel of works. According to it there are five "works" in order to be saved. If my memory serves me correctly they are: faith + repentance + confession + belief + baptism = salvation.
All five works are needed to be saved.
It seems that you think much the same way--a gospel of works: faith + repentance + confession + etc. = salvation.
Is that about it?
That is not the gospel of the Bible. Paul calls that message accursed.

 

Personally I don't see how they "can" be speaking of the same topic. Do you think they are speaking of the same topic?

Yes as a matter of fact I do. Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. It doesn't get any easier than that!

According to Eph. 2:8-9 it is of grace not of works.

Not sure how you are coming to that impression. That is not even remotely close to correct.

DHK where are you getting this? The good news is that Jesus, the Lamb of God, died and shed His blood in our place and that if I believe that as a sinner I am saved. That is the simple message! ANYTHING added to that is to make Paul a liar.

I aboslutely agree and that is what I have been taking a stand against. There are a number of folks on this message board that are promoting a back-loaded works salvation. They won't admit to it, but that's exactly what they are doing, because as you have said they are saying you must believe + confess + repent + + + + = salvation. And as you have said that is NOT what the Bible says.

The Bible says believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved!

 

That is not what you said in your previous post. Let me quote you:

Accordingly, you believe that: "belief" + "confession" are required for salvation. You just admitted as much in these two quotes. You do have a works salvation. Are you going to deny what you just said?

 

Let's look more closely at Romans 10:9. What are we confessing?

1. Jesus is Lord.
2. Jesus rose from the dead.

The first observation is that Jesus is Lord whether we believe it or not. This is simply a recognition of that fact.

Second, faith in a dead savior is not saving faith. So Paul says a belief in a risen Savior is part of what we must believe


Third, confession with the mouth can be done as a simple "yes," to the question, "do you believe these things?"

In short, confession with the mouth is nothing more than telling someone that you believe.