Featured What is the Righteousness of God?

Hi JonC, discussing my behavior, rather than my positions, is inappropriate. It is using a logical fallacy, an against the man argument, in place of actual discussion.

Next, you deny addressing my behavior. But your post #76 is there for all to read.

I agree no one has referenced scripture where a man enters heaven. Here is the verse, Matthew 23:13, But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

Now you did say that my view of the verse was "eisegesis" but without providing any specifics. My view, of course concludes "those who are entering" and thus possessing sufficient spiritual ability to do so, were blocked, and thus indicating they were not being compelled with irresistible grace.

Neither you nor anyone else has offered an alternate view, but instead my view is referred to as asinine and eisegesis. Thus simply "taint so" obfuscation.

The point was not "about how the man entered the kingdom" (no one entered) but that they possessed sufficient spiritual ability to be entering. You still have not addressed this point.

This discuss is not about whether anyone enters the kingdom by his or her own efforts. My view on that point is clear, no one ever enters the kingdom by his or her own efforts, it is God who transfers us from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His Son.

Now, if you would be so kind, please indicate how anyone could be "entering the kingdom of heaven" without some spiritual ability.

 

So sad, that the only defense of Calvinism is obfuscation and ad homenim.

When a passage or verse by logical necessity requires a conclusion, that is not eisegesis.

Here is the bottom line, the doctrine of total spiritual inability is demonstrated to be mistaken by Matthew 23:13 where unregenerate people were entering heaven. They could not have been according to Calvinism unless they had been regenerated, but they could not have been regenerated by irresistible grace since they were blocked. It is an obvious observation, for which no answer has been provided.

Next, the doctrine of unconditional election is shown to be mistaken by 2 Thessalonians 2:13 where God chooses people for salvation through faith in the truth.

Next, the doctrine of Limited Atonement, as defined by Calvinism, is shown to be mistaken by 2 Peter 2:1 where people headed for destruction were bought by Christ.

And as indicated above the doctrine of irresistible grace is shown to be mistaken by Matthew 23:13.

Born anew believers become the righteousness of God after they undergo the circumcision of Christ, and arise in Christ a new creation.

 

And the nonsense keeps rolling, in an effort to hide the obvious. Now I am accused of saying Jesus was wrong. Truth has no meaning on this forum.

In the construction, the many versus the one, the many refers to everyone except the one. Therefore, when scriptures says Jesus died for the many, that verse is saying Jesus died for everyone.

It is true no one is transferred into Christ from the realm of darkness by his or her own willpower. But that view is consistent with my biblical position.

Bottom line, everyone attempting to enter heaven is seeking God and His righteousness, whether by works, by faith in Christ, or by some mistaken combination. If God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness, God transfers us from the realm of darkness (in Adam) into the kingdom of His Son (in Christ).

 

"Jesus saw His own death as atoning for the many, not the all." This of course is fiction. No verse will be provided which says this falsehood. Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for all, 1 Timothy 2:6, tasted death for everyone, Hebrews 2:9, and is the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all of fallen mankind 1 John 2:2. He bought even those who would never be saved, 2 Peter 2:1. Everyone God places spiritually into Christ becomes the "righteousness of God" in Him.

 

All you need to do is read 2 Thessalonians 2:13, He chose for salvation through faith in the truth. Therefore when we believed during our lifetime and not before.

Those God places spiritually in Christ will not be cast out, each born anew believer belongs to Christ. We are His flock, and He says of us, My Sheep.

 

Martin, 2 Thess. 2:13 is crystal clear. You deny the obvious.
1) You do not know what "from the beginning" refers to, the beginning of creation, i.e. since creation, or from the beginning of the New Covenant.
The term is ambiguous.
2) Each and everyone chosen for salvation was chosen through faith in the truth. If you want to deny scripture means what it says, fine. I believe in scripture alone and not the inventions of men.
3) Sanctification by the Spirit refers to the Holy Spirit baptizing us into Christ spiritually, setting us apart in Christ.
4) On what basis did God choose us for salvation. Through faith in the truth. A conditional election during our lifetime after we believed.
5) Note the effort to conflate Ephesians 1:4 (before the foundation of the world) with "from the beginning" (during and after creation or later.)
6) Titus 1:2 refers to long ages ago, again referring to after creation because God was promising to His creation.

Verse after verse, no scripture actually supports Martin's view.

 

I do not think we were actually in Christ, either as an existent entity of some sort, or as part of God's supposed individual election decree when per Ephesians 1:4 “we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.” I think Christ was chosen, because Christ existed and we were only chosen corporately as a consequence of God's choice of a Redeemer. When God chose His Redeemer, and formulated His plan of redemption and since no plan of God can be thwarted, we were chosen corporately as those the Redeemer would redeem. Later, after creation and during our physical lifetime, after we believed in Jesus as the Son of God, then we were specifically and individually chosen and set apart by being baptized into Christ, according to God's foreknow plan of redemption.

Some folks explain being chosen in Him as meaning we were chosen as specific foreseen individuals in anticipation of the salvation that would be available “in Him.” This seems to me to be an unnatural reading of the text. Rather the phrase “in Him” seems to me to describe how we were chosen. “We were chosen in Him” meaning He was chosen and in some manner we were seen as affiliated with Him and therefore in choosing Him we were chosen as a consequence. Therefore the “we” need not refer to specific individuals, but only corporately to believers in Christ that would subsequently be redeemed individually.

In summary, God chose His redeemer before the foundation of the world, and as a consequence God chose corporately those who the Redeemer would redeem as the target group of God’s redemption plan.

 

Hi Martin, if you would be so kind as to stop attacking me personally, it would be appreciated. Everyone knows the use of personal attacks indicates a lack of actual argument. You refer to my "own crackpot doctrine." If I described your views in such a manner, I would get an infraction in a New York minute.

1) I addressed both Ephesians 1:4 and Titus 1:2 and neither supports your view. But you ignored my rebuttal.

2) We are chosen, repeat chosen, through faith in the truth. The verse does not say we were saved through faith in the truth, but chosen. No need to rewrite the text or redefine the words to pour your doctrine into the text.

3) I am all for examining what "teachers" teach to see if it agrees with scripture. Your views do not.