What is the thought behind policies like this?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by menageriekeeper, Apr 22, 2010.

  1. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
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    I was surfing today and came across a church school website. This school is run by a Baptist church, just for information, but I've seen similar policies at other Christian schools, both Baptist and non.

    there are two policies in particular that give me pause. Maybe I'm just a rebel but the first one bothers me just as much as the second:

    1) school uniform policies that are so detailed that they describe what sort of socks your child should be wearing!

    2) admission policies that exclude children with disabilities.

    What about these policies honors Christ like principles? The first implies that a Christian parent doesn't have the sense to dress their child appropriately and creates in my mind expressionless little droids or worse, my next thought was that they should all be wearing red scarves around their necks like good little communist children. (My third thought was where are the nuns?)

    What do they MEAN by "no show socks" aren't appropriate at school? Who cares whether or not a sock has a cuff??????????????

    The second implies that children with disabilities aren't "good enough" to attend a Christian school! I'm on a tear right now because my two chronically ill children have been sick and I'm not getting the cooperation I think I should from certain of their teachers in the public school. How much more cooperation do think I would expect if I were PAYING thousands of dollars a year for a private education?

    Where's the good in this? I can guarentee you that this church(and others I know of like it) calls its school a "ministry". Who are they ministering too? Perfect, smart, whole children who can tow the party line?
     
  2. gb93433

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    Additional rules are often created as a result of those who care to split hairs and cause trouble.
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    No it doesn't.


    No it doesn't. They may just not feel they are equipped to deal with them. It certainly may add costs to running the school.
     
  4. menageriekeeper

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    You implyin sumptin, gb????

    ;)
     
  5. abcgrad94

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    MK, I hear you about the dress standards at some Christian schools. I know of one school that had three pages in their student handbook dedicated to boy's hairstyles! Talk about "splitting hairs!"

    As for the issue with kids with disabilities, most Christian schools do not have the resources or money available to deal with this. Unlike public schools, they don't get government funding to hire special teachers or aides for the hearing impaired, mobility impaired, etc. and they often do not have handicapped accessible bathrooms, wheelchair lifts, special computers, or handicapped-friendly playground equipment. To provide these things would mean a tuition increase for the rest of the students.
     
  6. gb93433

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    Over time more rules are created because of unforeseen situations that occurred.
     
  7. Scarlett O.

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    Here's my thinking. Either have a dress code that allows appropriate street clothes or have a dress code that requires a uniform. And a uniform is not a uniform unless students are dressing uniformly from head to toe and that includes socks and and shoes.

    My Christian school claims to require uniforms, but all it is is a purple shirt. The "khaki pants" range in color (because they come from different stores) from stark white to dark brown. And the styles range from capris to cargo pants to khaki jeans to sweats. And as for shoes - anything goes. The students wear "street" shirt under their uniform shirt. This, to me, is NOT a uniform.

    I used to feel the way that you did about the disabled children. But now that I am teaching at a Christian school and have been for three years, I feel differently. If the Christian school is NOT equipped with a certified special ed teacher, certified physical therapist, etc. - they could actually do harm to the child and/or find themselves in a court of law.

    At least they are being honest and upfront and are letting people know that they cannot meet the needs of all children.
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    I was in the Navy and they have rules/codes for dress, appearance, so forth. Way more detailed than those my children had in a Christian school.

    In the school our church had (I was pastor AND administrator so very busy) we had a couple pages of rules. Period. Dealt individually with students who went against the system.

    Oddly enough the PUBLIC school in our town had 10 times the written rules on dress codes, etc.

    And agree that our school (under 100 students, 9 staff) was not equipped for any child not "mainstreamed" mentally or physically. So understand the sadness of having to turn away children that we could not serve.

    Attending our school was a privilege, not a right.
     
  9. pinoybaptist

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    God is a God of rules and order.
    Why shouldn't those who claim to raise children to His credit have rules, too ?
     
  10. abcgrad94

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    Rules should be scriptural, not man's opinion. Too many of man's rules in Christian homes cause children to rebel against their parents and against God.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    I gotta be honest ... This strikes me as very Pharisaical. Jesus said to the Pharisees, "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man" (Mark 7:21-23).

    Jesus seemed pretty clear that sin, including rebellion (as evidenced in many of these sins listed) come from within, not from without. Rules don't cause children to rebel. Sinful hearts cause children to rebel.
     
  12. Bob Alkire

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    I can't speak for others but for me that has been, is and will be true as long as I'm on earth. My heart has been the problem.
     
  13. abcgrad94

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    It's Pharasaical to enforce man-made rules as "God's standards" when they have no biblical basis, then tell kids they are rebelling against God if they do not blindly conform to those rules.

    I've heard parents complain about their rebellious children and it was never about the child's heart, but about the child not following rules. Somewhere in fundamentalism we've gotten the idea that following man's rules equals spirituality and a good attitude. When I was growing up in a legalistic home, short hair on boys and skirts on girls was holy and hair touching the ears and jeans on women was SIN! Problem was, I never found that in the Bible.

    The Bible clearly tells fathers not to provoke their children to wrath, but to bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Rules should be made and explained according to scripture.
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    ABCGrad, I can't help but notice you didn't deal with the text that directly addresses the cause of sin. Jesus does not mention rules in there as a cause of rebellion.

    You got Bible for this? Or is it a man-made rule? Cuz I don't recall anywhere that the Bible says this. (I don't know anyone who actually says this about rules either, and I have been around rules a good deal more than most here, probably. But be that as it may ... )

    So? Some parent is wrong about the issue and somehow that makes JEsus wrong? I don't agree with that at all. Rebellious hearts are often seen in children not following rules. They are often disguised when rebellious hearts do follow rules.

    That's not in the Bible, but that didn't cause you to rebel. According to the Bible (which is supposed to be the authority according to you), the Bible says that rebellion comes out of the heart, not the rulebook and not legalistic parents.

    Absolutely, and many fail. But again, what does the Bible say about the source of rebellion?

    Is this a man-made rule? Cuz I don't recall this in the Bible either?

    Obviously, ABCGrad, I am having a bit of fun here, but isn't it obvious that your own position is not a "biblical one" according to the standard you want? We all recognize the need for "extra-biblical" rules. Some people abuse them to be sure. But no one wants to live without them.

    And the fact is that Jesus taught that rebellion is caused by our sinful heart, not by our parent's (or school's) rules. We need to get to the heart of the problem, no pun intended.

    I don't have a problem with much of what you say, but I am pointing out the fallacy that rules cause rebellion. Jesus said they don't. Rebellion comes from within.
     
  15. abcgrad94

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    Of course sin comes from the heart, as you pointed out from scripture. I'm not denying that. Rebellion against GOD is sin. However, legalistic rules incite rebellion when abused. It provokes a child to anger and frustration and makes them WANT to rebel. As parents, we have a responsibility to nurture our children so they know it's not the outward appearance, but the inside (the heart) that pleases God. When kids are programmed to obediently follow rules, like little robots, without being allowed to think for themselves, I'll guarantee they will either rebel or become very depressed and/or legalistic themselves.

    Yes, there are times when rules are necessary without much explaining. We teach youngsters not to play in the street or not to get into cars with strangers. So of course some rules are needed. My problem is when rules of preference are taught as God's rules and one is taught they must follow those man made rules in order to please God and they are "rebelling" if they grow up and abandon those rules.
     
  16. John Toppass

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    From my experience, rebellion comes from rules that are enforced only part of the time and children who are taught that it is somebody else's fault that they were tricked into doing something they shouldn't do.

    Parents must be careful when making rules; that those rules can be fairly and will be fairly enforced.

    All in all, rebellion almost always starts with rules and standards that are not upheld and that is usually the adults fault but the child must be held accountable for their actions as well.

    Rebellion is not the result of too many rules it is the result of inconsistent rules.

    My sons (grown with children of their own) have thanked me for "being in their kool aid all the time". After a while, the boys basically were allowed to choose for themselves, even if it meant choosing different than I would have, but the trust was there and often they saw why they did not choose best and I sometimes saw that some of my concerns were unfounded.

    P.S. It may have helped that I had them convinced that the law of the land was that a father can end the existence of one child if the father deems it necessary and I always told them that I am still trying to choose which one of them will qualify.
     
    #16 John Toppass, Apr 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2010
  17. pinoybaptist

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    Well, then, maybe because the rules are made to be understood to be "because I said so" instead of explained reasonably and lovingly.
    Is it unscriptural for a Christian school, for example, to have their students dress in a way which to their standard is dignified and not "run of the mill", if that is the right expression ?
    I would rather have my children dress modestly, and decently, than have them dress like kids dress today from high school to college. Shorts, sandals, tops, tattered jeans, unshaven, etc., of course, that is not to say that all of them dress that way, but most of them do.
    But, to each his own opinion, though.
    Yours is probably a different time than mine.
    In my time, we tried to dress properly and appropriately.
    Tattos were for convicts and sailors.
    Rings on noses were for headhunters, and the tongue was for tasting food, not to be pierced.
    Music was music with meaning in it, not a jumble of unintelligible words that passed for some music today.
    Besides, if you think you don't like the school's rules, hey, it's a free country.
    Take the kids somewhere else where the dress code meets your approval.
     
  18. menageriekeeper

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    I can understand this in a lot of cases. Even the public schools can't handle Chris' inability to be *at* school. But there are tons of children who can be mainstreamed, though they may not work exactly on "grade" level. To specify that students must be at or above "grade" level is exclusionary even of children who are only slower than the norm.

    This was not a military school! :laugh: Nor do I see any reason for school children to be educated in such an environment (there might be an exception to the rule).

    Still, no one has told me what the point is in even having a uniform. Not a dress code mind you, but a uniform. Why bother? Isn't it better to teach children to dress appropriately rather than to put in uniforms all their lives and then turn them loose on society when they graduate? (I mean really, look what sailors do when they get off on leave. :eek: )

    Yes, rules are fine. God gave us 10 of them. That was too much for most of us, so he reduced it to just two! Neither of those rules say anything about everyone all dressing just alike? Do the teachers have a uniform? Why not?
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    It would be more accurate to say that it reveals it.

    I'll take that bet. When kids are programmed to obediently follow rules, they learn to love God. The fact is that kids are not prepared to think for themselves. That is why God gave them parents ... to teach them how to think and what to think.

    The idea that we can either have rules or concentrate on the inside is a false dilemma. We can and must do both. Nobody here wants to live in a world without man made rules. And nobody here cares whether one's heart is in it when these rules are followed. They are necessary for order in God's good universe.

    I think the greater problem is going around complaining about legalism. It teaches kids to complain about legalism rather than learning to live in loving obedience.
     
  20. John Toppass

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    amen aaaaammmeeeennn!!!!!!
     

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