What Is This Passage Talking About?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Marcia, Jun 18, 2006.

  1. Marcia

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    This passage, Joel 2.28-29, comes up on various threads from time to time, but I've never seen a good explanation for it.

    If you've studied this passage before, what do you think it is saying or not saying? I see people use it to support all kinds of stuff.

     
  2. Trotter

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    Peter used it on the day of pentecost, saying that it was being fulfiulled right then.

    That's good enough for me.

    but, yeah, a lot of people try to twist it to their own interpretations.
     
  3. John of Japan

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    Amen, Trotter. It is about the believers in Acts 2 being filled with the Spirit, witnessing (prophesying) and seeing God do a great work with 1000's of people saved!

    It is certainly not about the "Azuza Street Revival" in 1911 or thereabouts, or the "Charismatic Renewal" beginning in the 1960's.
     
  4. Gershom

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    So we're no longer in the last days? Guess we missed the bus!
     
  5. saturneptune

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    To me it means that in the last days, (being defined as the time from Pentecost to Christ's return), God has the Holy Spirit avaliable to all those who believe, or those who are chosen, or convicted, however you want to put it. This is contrasted to how the Holy Spirit was used in Old Testement times, specific times for specific people and reasons.
     
  6. Grasshopper

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    Peter quotes Joel and declare it was being fulfilled:

    Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
    Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
    Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
    Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
    Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
    Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    It was a “last days” prophecy agreeing with the writer of Hebrews who also stated the last days were in the 1st century:

    Heb 1:1 God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
    Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds,

    You can see the fulfillment of Joel prophecy in the book of Acts:

    Act 21:9 And there were four virgin daughters to this one, who prophesied.
    Act 21:10 And as we stayed more days, a certain prophet from Judea named Agabus came down.


    Act 9:10 And there was a certain disciple in Damascus named Ananias. And the Lord said to him in a vision, Ananias! And he said, Behold me, Lord.

    Act 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
     
  7. Brother Bob

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    Saturneptune;
    I agree with you and we still are living in the last days and all the Scriptures given above were after the day of Penecost even Paul and Ananais were after Penecost, the four virgin daughters wh prophesied were after Penecost and if anyone on here believes it is fullfilled then they should stop prophesying for that is what they are doing when they talk about the second coming of Christ and the Scriptures.

    The following Scripture plainly states that after they had received the Holy Ghost, Peter said repent and be baptized and ye shall receive the Holy Ghost and there were three thousand souls saved that day. There is the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost and if you have one you have them all and if you don't have one you don't have any.

    Acts, chapter 2
    38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    If you are saying it is being fulfilled as in it is still being fulfilled then I agree if you are saying it is over then I strongly disagree.
     
  8. John of Japan

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    Hmm, funny. I don't remember saying, "We're no longer in the last days." Oh, that's right, I didn't! :rolleyes:

    The term "the last days" refers to the entire church age. A simple study of the term reveals that the NT writers believed they were already in the last days.

    Concerning the prophecy in Joel, Peter clearly stated that the fulfillment of that prophecy was at that time, in Acts 2. No part of the prophecy is ever again repeated in the NT except for "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved," in Rom. 10:13. And that statement is not the meat of the prophecy, but the result of the prophecy, so Paul is using it by application in Romans, not to state a further fulfillment.

    So was Joel's prophecy fullfilled again after Pentecost? Is it being fulfilled today? No. There is not a shred of Biblical evidence for that position.
     
  9. John of Japan

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    If the book of Acts does not proclaim these incidents to be fulfillments of Joel's prophecy, why do you?
     
  10. Brother Bob

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    JoJ;

    Acts, chapter 2
    17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
    (who was dreaming and seeing visions on that day?)
    18: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
    19: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
    (Now we know these things are to come but when were they fulfilled on that day of Penecost?)
    20: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
    (We also know these things are yet to come but where were they fulfilled on that day?}
    21: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    (You do believe people are still being saved don't you?)

    Those Prophecys of Joel are still going on today and according to the above Scriptures even what will happen on the last day. You tell me when will the sun turn dark and the moon to blood?
     
  11. John of Japan

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    Well, Peter said it happened in Acts 2: "This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." Who are we to say it didn't happened if Peter said it did and he was right there? Now he didn't explain all about how the sun went dark (although that could have referred to when Jesus died). But that doesn't matter. He didn't explain about the visions and dreams. He simply said Joel 2 was fulfilled. You know what? I'd rather agree with Peter than you--no offense! :smilewinkgrin:

    Some of you are saying there are multiple fulfillments of this prophecy. That is not how prophecy works! Tell me one other prophecy that was fulfilled more than once. Did a second virgin conceive and bear a son? Did God call His Son out of Egypt more than once? Was Jerusalem destroyed twice in 70 A. D., or just once as Jesus prophesied?
     
  12. John of Japan

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    Well, Peter said it happened in Acts 2--"This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." Who are we to say it didn't happen if Peter said it did and he was right there and saw it happen? Now he didn't explain all about how the sun went dark (although that could have referred to when Jesus died). But that doesn't matter. He didn't explain about the visions and dreams. That doesn't matter either. He simply said Joel 2 was fulfilled. You know what? I'd rather agree with Peter than you--no offense! :smilewinkgrin:

    Some of you seem to be saying there are multiple fulfillments of this prophecy. That is not how prophecy works! Tell me one other prophecy that was fulfilled more than once. Did a second virgin conceive and bear a son? Did God call His Son out of Egypt more than once? Was Jerusalem destroyed twice in 70 A. D., or just once as Jesus prophesied?
     
  13. Brother Bob

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    Where did Peter say it was being fulfilled and I will stick with Peter also but with what he actually said not your interptation.

    Wrong here too, the OT is full of prophesies of the last days.

    Isaiah, chapter 2
    "2": And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
     
    #13 Brother Bob, Jun 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2006
  14. Gershom

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    The prophecy is still being fulfilled. And you can't talk out of both sides of your mouth. Your saying it's all been fulfilled while at the same time saying it hasn't ALL been fulfilled.
     
  15. Grasshopper

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    So the fact that Acts shows us examples of “your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams” means nothing to you? So if these are not fulfillments of this prophecy, what is? You said it was fulfilled:

    "Well, Peter said it happened in Acts 2: "This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." Who are we to say it didn't happened if Peter said it did and he was right there?"



    The “last days” started before Pentecost so it can’t refer to the Church Age.




    Study the OT sometime. There are numerous occasions where this language is used to describe historical events fulfilled long ago.



    Then perhaps you should read what Peter said

    Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
    Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:



    That is fulfilled. It is Mount Zion, the Church. Now go back to Genesis 49 and read about the “last days” and whose “last days” they refer to. It is not the “last days” of the Church, Planet Earth or the New Covenant.
     
  16. John of Japan

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    I beg your pardon? And where did I say it hasn't all been fulfilled? I said Peter said it was fulfilled and that's enough for me!
     
  17. John of Japan

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    I just have this habit of going as far as the Bible does and no further. Peter said clearly that Joel 2 was fulfilled right then. Luke in writing the book of Acts did not say these further incidents were further fullfillments of Joel 2, so I won't say they are. It is as simple as that.
     
  18. Gershom

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    Looks like you're saying it's been fulfilled, but not all.
     
  19. Brother Bob

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    So, are you saying that no one else will be saved that it stopped at the day of Penecost or are "all nations still flowing into it" Also, are you saying the New Covenant is over with? What kind of doctrine is that?

    Neither one of you has supplied where Peter said it was "fulfilled"?

    Also vision of Paul and vision of Ananias and the four daughter Prophesying is after Penecost and you did not answer that either? YOu don't have one Scripture where the Prophesying ended.

    Also, you admit that whosoever call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved is still happening so you are cherry picking as Cheney.
     
    #19 Brother Bob, Jun 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2006
  20. John of Japan

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    No way! I am saying it was ALL fulfilled at Pentecost! There can be similar happenings after Pentecost that were not specific fulfillments of that prophecy.
     

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