What Is Wrong With Bob Jones?

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Martin, Dec 17, 2005.

  1. Martin

    Martin
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    I have a general question that maybe someone here can answer. Why has Bob Jones University waited until April '05 to seek accreditation? They are now a candidate institution with TRACS which means it will be another FIVE YEARS (or so) before BJU is accredited by TRACS. They don't say if they have any plans to seek SACS accreditation. That, in my judgment, is poor managment. I am thankful that Jerry Falwell had enough sense to get Liberty SACS and TRACS accredited so as to not limit the graduates. I can only wish Bob Jones would have done the same.

    This is a shame. :confused: [​IMG]

    Martin.
     
  2. Eric Rolen

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    my pastor is a BJU grad and i get the impression that they think if you get your bachelor for bju then you will inherently get your masters and phd from bju if you wish to pursue further education.

    i think the reason that they have been slow woth sacs and tracs is that they have no problem with getting students and funding to educate them from private lendors and self sustainment.

    bju is the utopian christian community to hear their students and alumni express it.

    my two cents
     
  3. Pastor Larry

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    Martin,

    What is the shame? The education at Bob Jones has always been way above the standard for college education, particularly in Christian colleges. What good would accreditation have served them? Not much. It would have put an official stamp on what everyone "in the know" already knew ... that the education at BJU is very good.

    They offered theological and philosophical reasons for not pursuing accreditation, which centered on giving up philosphical control of the mission and education processes of the university to secular control and input. Whether or not that is a valid objection has been the object of much debate. But the education has not changed. It was good then; it is good now.

    Graduates of BJU are in top graduate schools all over the country, including Ivy League schools, top conservatories, top medical schools, and top law schools. BJU graduates work for many of the top companies in all sectors of the economy, as well as in government. These top companies come to BJU to recruit their graduates.

    The biggest problem BJU students have is trying to transfer their undergraduate credits towards graduation at another school. The funny thing is that getting accredited would make the credits acceptable for the same courses that are "unacceptable" now. It kind of shows the silliness of the whole accreditation process. But it is part of the deal these days.

    These days, when people go to BJU, they know what they will get. If accreditation is a big deal, then they won't go.
     
  4. gb93433

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    There are many universities which will not hire any graduates of a single university if the person has only studied at one place. It does make sense because each university is different and gives the student a different perspective. I have been to three universities and a seminary and have seen the strengths and weaknesses of each.
     
  5. John of Japan

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    Not that I oppose accreditation. My degrees are from accredited institutions. But for what it is worth, I heard the president of a Christian college once say that for him to seek accreditation for his school would be like the major leagues seeking approval from the little league. His point, of course, is that quality and character are what count in the end, and I agree with that. [​IMG]

    Having degrees from accredited institutions may help you get a start in life, but how many people have we seen who: (1) though having great academic degrees, made a mess of their lives, or (2) having no academics, became a great success.

    Case in point: how many famous institutions were founded by men with no advanced degrees, maybe even without even a college degree? D. L. Moody comes to mind.

    And that is my two yen. [​IMG]
     
  6. Hope of Glory

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    What's wrong with BJU? Well, I have two friends who graduated from there, and one of them says "everything" and the other one says "nothing".
     
  7. John of Japan

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    And that's about how it's gonna be! I went there two years, and sometimes I say the one and sometimes I say the other. ;)
     
  8. Martin

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    ==It would get them more students and it would help their alumni. For example I would never attend since I need accredited degrees (I am not considering it just an example). Many other people like me need accredited degrees. Why? There are some fields you must have an accredited degree to enter into. While Bob Jones has programs/degrees in those fields it does not help the students since they are not accredited.


    ==Personally I think that excuse is just the easy way out for them (or for any other school). The responsible thing to do is to seek and gain offical accreditation. A school does not have to compromise anything to do that. Look at the great schools that are accredited: Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Liberty Theological Seminary, Southern Evangelical Seminary, and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, etc, etc, etc.

    And if they are so opposed to accreditation why are they now seeking it? Interesting question.


    ==So? A person can earn an unaccredited undergrad degree and still get into graduate school and get a good job. Nothing unusual there. I am mainly refering to their graduate programs.


    ==See above.

    ==Many schools/universities will not accept unaccredited transfer credits since there is no "stamp of approval" on the course (so to speak). Also many Universities (etc) will not hire people with degrees from unaccredited schools (no matter how good the school). You may think it is silly, and it maybe, however it is the reality and BJU should have prepared themselves (and their students) for that reality. By not being accredited BJU has cheated its students.


    Martin.
     
  9. Pastor Larry

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    How have they cheated their students? Did any student go there thinking they were accredited???

    Their claim was they were opposed to unsaved people sitting in judgment and review on teh mission and standards of a Christian college. That is certainly a valid consideration, at the very least. It could be debated whether it is necessary. The accreditation they are now seeking does not involved unsaved people sitting in review and judgment.

    As for long term affects, who knows. I have always been of the opinion you get the accreditation and if in the future they require compromise to keep it, then you let it go. They differ with me on that and since my name isn't on the gate, they win.

    Most of the terminal degrees of faculty at BJU are from other institutions I believe. The exception is the Bible faculty.

    But the truth is they didn't cheat anyone. When you go there, you know what you are getting.
     
  10. MikeinGhana

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    The only shame in this thread is that we have to be so critial all the time. I for one think that there is no reason for them to seek man's approval if they have God's approval. The schools listed above are mostly new evangelical or liberal aren't they?
     
  11. bapmom

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    And why are most people going to BIBLE college anyway? To be hired by another university? Just to be able to go on and get even more education?

    While we worry about accreditation and try to get all this education, the rest of the world is watching us sit here with like 3% of the world's population, but 95% of the ordained preachers.

    Most of the people waiting for a witness do not care if you graduated from an accredited college or not. They just want you to be able to tell them about Christ.

    Go and do it.
     
  12. Martin

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    ==I think most Christians can witness and earn a solid education at the same time. I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive.

    Martin.
     
  13. Martin

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    ==There are saved and unsaved people who do the on-site visits (etc) for SACS. TRACS is a christian accrediting group. Schools like Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary use the SACS visit (etc) as a chance to witness. The very fact that many great, Bible teaching, schools are regionally accredited refutes the view the BJU has expressed.

    Martin.
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    What do you mean it refutes their view? It does no such thing.

    Their view is that they don't want unsaved people sitting in judgment of their school. To say that other schools do is irrelevant. It is impossible to refute their view. It is not refutable. It is like someone saying, "I am opposed to coffee." You can't refute that.

    You may refute their conclusion: that unsaved people sitting in judgment will force unwanted changes. Personally, I think it too early to tell.

    But that is irrelevant. BJU, as an autonomous school, has decided what they want to do.

    You claimed they were cheating their students, but in fact they weren't. If one needs an accredited degree, they will go elsewhere.

    My suspicion is that in the big picture, accreditation doesn't matter. If you are good at what you do, they won't care where you went to school. Accreditation helps the mediocre look better, it seems to me.
     
  15. bapmom

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    Martin,

    I did not say that the two were mutually exclusive. I was pointing out that most people go to Bible college in order to learn the Bible and ministry so that they can GO AND DO IT.....

    what disturbs me is that the emphasis here seems to be so much on going on to teach at a university, or becoming an erudite scholar, or some other such thing that puts you behind a desk and out of the "field", so to speak.

    Im not anti-education, just trying to add a little bit of a balanced perspective on what our true goals of getting an education ought to be.
     
  16. gb93433

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    What you have said is exactly the basis on which parachurch organizations are doing ministry in colleges, universities and military bases.

    When I was a college student I led a ministry for 4th - 6th grade kids in a church where I taught them how to disciple their friends at school. At that time there were some who began to witness to their friends and disciple them. Some of those kids wanted to stay on and I would let them stay until the end of 8th grade. Other churches in the area had heard about what we were doing and came to see for themselves. What God was doing with those kids was amazing. I took those kids on outings and we went to homes to have fun. As workers we prayed for every kid each week. We prayed for them for one hour. I didn't know much except that God was real and he answered prayer. I affected the church so much that the elders of the church began to see what was happening and wanted to see that happen churchwide.

    In American churches so often we have many pew sitters who are consumers of intellectual theology and are practical atheists. Who challenges them to grow and learn how to make disciples.

    No man should even be considered as an applicant at a seminary if he has not first made one disciple. If he cannot make one disciple how can he be expected to lead a church to do make disciples.
     
  17. Eric Rolen

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    No man should even be considered as an applicant at a seminary if he has not first made one disciple. If he cannot make one disciple how can he be expected to lead a church to do make disciples.

    Man dont make disciples God does.

    Why we worry and debate accreditation is crazy. I think if you are learning the fundamental truths of the Bible you are in a good place.

    alot of Bible colleges are getting bogged down in trying to be accepted in mans eyes. We should try to stay focused on God. Every college thread on here eventually gets saturated with "accreditation" comments.

    Excuse me if i am wrong, but is all Bible colleges judged solely on accreditation? That is the tendency i get on here
     
  18. Squire Robertsson

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    Please consider these factors. Bob Jones University (then College) was founded in the '20s as an alternative to the denominational schools which were going down the drain of apostasy. At the time, accreditation was a null term. Dr. Bob, Sr. did his level best to bring in top notch faculty. The school's goal was to be a viable alternative to Princeton if not Harvard. (Whether they met that goal is another question for another time and thread.) So, besides the reasons already enumerated above, another position was "If Harvard isn't accredited why should we be? We'll let the quality of our graduates speak for us." I'll also hazard that up until ten or so years ago the matter of accreditation in transferring credits wasn't as big a factor as it is today.
     
  19. John of Japan

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    One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that there are some majors at BJU that it is almost impossible to find at other Christian colleges: pre-law, pre-med (I think they still offer these two) stage production, movie-making, etc. Where else can you find these majors with a Christian emphasis, whatever your views about accreditation and other BJUish things? ;)
     
  20. Squire Robertsson

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    Concur, and again I'll hazard the opinion "accreditation" wasn't a problem until the receiving schools bean-counters got into the act.
     

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