Featured What is wrong with the belief that Christ rose from the dead on Sunday?

Mary Magdalene "runs" back and tells John and Peter, John 20:2b. "Peter THEREFORE went", verse 3a. Obviously what followed was Peter and John's FIRST discovery of the EMPTY tomb.
John does not inform us that Mary also told the other women ---one concludes that she did. This implies the women were not with Peter and John when Mary had told them.

So Peter and John knew that the tomb was empty, BEFORE any women did!

Which again explains the fact that the women together went to the tomb the first time "bringing with their spices prepared and ready" ---thinking that the body was still in the sepulchre, and not knowing that the tomb was left empty by Jesus already in Luke 24.

Now it is Luke who tells that Peter went to the tomb ON HIS OWN and it is readily concluded from Luke’s story that Peter’s was a second visit not only because he is mentioned as having gone to the tomb on his own, but from how Peter ---like Cleopas and his fellow traveller--- also must have been “astonished” by the women’s report received from the two “messengers” that Jesus had been raised.

So Peter’s solo visit was after the women had learned about the empty tomb and Resurrection, and later than his first visit with John recorded by John. Luke 24 tells in verse 12 how Peter “was wandering in himself at that which was come to pass"— obviously the women’s discovery of the empty tomb and encounter with the two angels who told them that Jesus had had raised --- something not the women or he could have thought possible.

There is no doubt therefore that Peter at his first visit went because Mary had told him that she had seen the stone away from the tomb BUT DID NOT KNOW AND ONLY SURMISED that the body must have been removed from the tomb. So Peter and John went to make sure about the STONE and whether the body was really taken away or not as Mary had thought.

But Peter made his second journey to go and ascertain what the several women on instruction of the TWO ‘angelic’ WITNESSES had told the group of disciples before daybreak on ‘Sunday’ morning. Maybe he expected to find out from the messengers himself. We do not know. We only know he was confused— but this time by the report of Jesus’ Resurrection!

I therefore am of the opinion Nestle and Aland made a BIG MISTAKE to omit Peter’s visit at the tomb in Luke 24, and that Erasmus was absolutely RIGHT to include it.

 

Re: <<<It was the women who broke the news to the 11>>>

Which <<news>>?

The news of the Resurrection.

That report was recorded in Luke 24:9 and repeated in verse 23.

So, if I am <<smoking or sniffing>> anything, you must smoke and sniff the same stuff.

Re: <<<but Mary reported NOT a moved stone but a missing body!>>>

Yes.

WHEN did she <report> it?

In Luke 24:9 and 23 exactly what I stated in my previous post.

<<<How did she know the body was missing? Did she infer all that from a moved rock?>>>

Not this time; because THIS time as reported by LUKE, Mary Magdalene “…and others found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre” as per Mary’s FIRST report in JOHN 20:1,2.

But in Luke 24:1-3, “THEY ENTERED IN AND FOUND NOT THE BODY”. As you said, <<<She went inside and saw the body missing.>>>. In fact, THIS TIME.

But you, Vooks, FRAUDULENTLY CONFUSE and IDENTIFY the TWO visits.

God ---the LIVING and AWAKE Almighty and Righteous--- is reading our posts.

 

Re: <<<Mary Magdalene visits the tomb on Saturday evening, sees the stone rolled away, goes back and shares this with Peter and John who then dash to the open tomb, get inside and confirm the missing body. Mary actually meets the resurrected Christ soon as Peter and John depart from the grave. Yet Mary accompanies women 6 hours later to the tomb to anoint a MISSING BODY!>>>

You are pretending, such nonsense, untrue, contrary Scripture nonsense!

Stop your silly BLUFF and STOP WRITING YOUR OWN nonsense for Scripture!

Mary Magdalene does not <<visit the tomb>> : “She sees the stone having been taken out and away from the grave” – [‘blepei ton lithon ehrmenon ek tou mnehneiou’]

Re: <<on Saturday evening>>
...for the real words, “on the First Day of the week (it) being still early-of-dark” which is <<on Saturday evening>> OK.

Yes, and “THEN” = “still being early-of-dark”, “RUNS”— not merely <<goes>>, <<back and shares this with Peter and John who then dash to the open[ed] tomb, get inside and…>>, NOT: <<<confirm the missing body>>>— but DISCOVER the body that was not there.
Mary did not yet know or see or tell that the body was not there or yet saw or knew or told WHY the body was no longer there. She only SPECULATED the body must have been taken away because she saw that the stone was taken out of the door of the tomb.

Do not feed me or anyone else, your ROTTEN GOSPEL!

The resurrected Christ actually meets Mary no ‘sooner’, than the following morning by the time a gardener would begin his day’s labour in his garden— which was sunrise 6 a.m. “on the First Day of the week” : “early” according to John 20 verses 11 to 17 and Mark 16:9 --- NOT according to John 20 verses 1 to 2!

Re: <<<Mary actually meets the resurrected Christ soon as Peter and John depart from the grave.>>>

Stop YOUR, rotten ‘gospel’! <<<Mary actually meets the resurrected Christ soon as Peter and John depart from the grave>>> ---what a LIE!

Don’t you have shame?! Peter and John “returned home” from the grave soon after Mary had told them that the stone was taken out “WHEN BEING EARLY-OF-DARK STILL” that is, while it was yet evening after sunset and before proper “dark”. Which was about 10 - 11 hours before Jesus appeared to Mary first!

Your ‘gospel’ is abhorrent and blasphemous! Yes, exactly! It mocks the innocent ignorance of the women who 4 to 5 hours later went to the tomb <<<to anoint a MISSING BODY>>> which they thought was still there because that was why they “carried with them their spices ready and prepared”.

Your disrespectfulness is unbecoming a Christian.
Are you a Christian after all?! I would not have guessed!

 

No Vooks, it is you who must say, What is "we know NOT"? That, was Mary's <shadow> of imagination and desperate thought --- of both her and Peter and John’s imagination and thought.

 

If that were the case, John would have written, not, "Mary", not, the Singular, not, the Presence, and, not the Negation, and he would not have used the Verbs, "comes ... sees ... runs", and he would not have used the Noun-object in the Accusative, "stone" etcetera.

You are pretending stupid and attempting to be funny. But your attempts at acting comedian, are worse than your linguistic skills.

 

You lack the kind of common sense that is common to commoners like myself. So you resort to spinning your lies for the Gospel.

God is not a God of confusion. You seem to worship your own head in which is nothing but confusion.

But you are pulling me down to your level. I won't react to nonsense like this and other posts of yours again.

 

.
"we -- Mary, Peter and John -- know NOT ..."
.

 

John 20:2
On the First day of the week while being early of dark still, comes Mary Magdalene to the sepulchre and sees the stone taken away from the sepulchre. Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
Who is WE?

Mark 16:2-4
And very early in the morning before sunrise the First Day of the week they came unto the sepulchre. And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked again, they saw that the stone was rolled up and away: for it was very great

John 20:1,2
"while being early of dark still" Dusk
Mark 16:2-4
"very early before sunrise! Morning

John 20:1,2
"comes" Present Singular
Mark 16:2-4
"came" Past Tense Plural

John 20:1,2
"Mary Magdalene"
Mark 16:2-4
"they" Three women of verse 1

John 20:1,2
"sees"
Mark 16:2-4
"came to the grave" (how)

John 20:1,2
"Mary sees the STONE"
Mark 16:2-4
"Looking again RE-observing (how) the stone was CAST

John 20:1,2
"having been taken out of the tomb"
Mark 16:2-4
"the stone has been cast up-and-away" (how)

John 20:1,2
"then she runs (back)"
Mark 16:2-4
"then they (there) said"

John 20:1,2
"and comes to Simon Peter"
Mark 16:2-4
"spoke with ONE ANOTHER"

John 20:1,2
"she SAYS to them"
Mark 16:2-4
"they LOOKED again"

John 20:1,2
No angel(s)
Mark 16:2-4
angel inside "on the right"

John 20:1,2
No conversation between Mary or anyone else
Mark 16:2-4
Conversation with angel

John 20:1,2
Mary returned to disciples
Mark 16:2-4
women FLED from the tomb

John 20:1,2
Mary told Peter and John
Mark 16:2-4
Women "told no one anything"


What grossly obtuse mind can confuse these two events and identify these different Scriptures!

 

I am saving this as an example of the quality found in self-refutation.

 

. . .if that is what YOU say . . .

 

Two women only, "Mary Magdalene and the other Mary", "saw where they ... Joseph and Nicodemus ... laid Him ... and Joseph closed the sepulchre ... and they ---two men and two women--- returned and went home."

Peter and John did not know that, the body was buried, or where, he was buried.

In John 20:2, NONE of <we> i.e., NONE of either Mary or Peter or John, “kn(e)w (that) they (“they” in fact was nobody!) have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, or, where they have laid him” . . . that is, reburied him which in fact He never was.

So in effect what one Vooks alleges falsely is that everyone, all the women as well as all the disciples KNEW for alleged fact that Jesus did not resurrect but that his body was removed from Joseph’s tomb and was buried elsewhere.

Therefore this Vooks fellow, here and for his past dozen or so affirmations, have consistently accused all four Gospels that they constitute FALSE WITNESS—AND—THAT JESUS , IS A FALSE CHRIST.

Undeniable ---by only insisting the words “we know not” REALLY MEAN <WE>, <<DO know>>.